In exactly what ways should we keep our children ignorant about sex?
At DI, we have an extremely conservative fellow visiting the blog these days. He’s trying to convert all of us to his reactionary world view. He clings to his Bible as a book of literal truths and he seems to love everything that Sarah Palin ostensibly stands for. I’d like to issue a challenge to this fellow, who goes by the name “Erik.” To me, he represents many people out there who seem to believe that if you pretend something isn’t important, it isn’t important, even if it IS important. This includes such critical topics as as Iraq, the cobbled together all-too-human nature of the Bible, Global Warming and, of course, sex education.
Please tell me which of the following sexual education topics you would rather that our children not know anything about. Please tell me in what specific ways we should keep children, including teenagers, in the dark.
These topics are actually the chapters of a popular book that I have read. I would wholeheartedly recommend this book to any parent seeking a sex education book for their children: It’s Perfectly Normal: Changing Bodies, Growing Up, Sex, and Sexual Health (2004), by Robie H. Harris (Author), Michael Emberley (Illustrator). Here are the topics:
Part I – What is Sex
Girl or Boy, Female or Male (sex and gender)
Making Babies (Sexual Reproduction)
Strong Feelings (Sexual Desire)
Making Love (Sexual intercourse)
Straight and Gay (Heterosexuality and homosexuality)
Part II – Our Bodies
The Human Body (All kinds of bodies)
Outside and Inside (The Female Sex Organs)
Outside and Inside (The Male Sex Organs)
Words (Talking about Bodies and Sex)
Part III – Puberty
Changes and Messages (Puberty and Hormones)
The travels of the Egg (Female Puberty)
The Travels of the Sperm (Male Puberty)
Not all at Once! (Growing and Changing Bodies)
More Changes (Taking care of your Body)
Back and Forth: (Up and Down – New and Changing Feelings)
Perfectly Normal: (Masturbation)
Part IV – Babies and Families
All sorts of Families (Taking care of babies and kids)
Instructions from Mom and Dad (The Cell, genes and chromosomes)
A kind of Sharing: (Cuddling, kissing, touching and sexual intercourse)
Before Birth: (Pregnancy)
What a Trip! (Birth)
Other Arrivals (More ways to have a baby and family, including adoption)
Part V - Decisions
Planning Ahead (postponement, abstinence and birth control)
Laws and Rulings (abortion)
Part VI – Staying Healthy
Talk about it (sexual abuse)
Checkup (Sexually Transmitted Diseases)
Scientists Working Day and Night (HIV and AIDS)
Staying Healthy (Responsible Choices).
So what is it, Erik? Should we avoid teaching our children about puberty? Sexual feelings? Masturbation? Shall we keep our kids from knowing anything about any of these sex-ed topics? Truly, tell me exactly how ignorant you want to keep America’s children and teenagers. Should we keep this book out of America’s public libraries? Should this book even be sold at all? You are aware, aren’t you, that many parents are so mentally stymied about sex (because their own parents thought it better to keep them ignorant) that they don’t have a clue about how to communicate these sex-ed ideas to their kids. Shouldn’t those parents have access to a book like this to provide them with clear information about compelling topics?
Here’s a caveat to those people who want to live in ignorance: you can peek in this book at Amazon–beware that you might learn something.
For a little journey that is pretty amazing, though not unexpected, take a look at the comments regarding this book at Amazon and you’ll be Amazed at the cultural chasm displayed. This book typically gets either 5 stars (from people who want their kids to be informed about these important topics) or 1 star (by people who want to keep their kids ignorant about sex). Too bad Bristol Palin didn’t have a book like this a year ago.
Because you might actually learn something important by reading it, It’s Perfectly Normal is one of the top ten challenged books of 2007, according to the Economist.
• Ben
No God did not create homosexuality. The animal kingdom was cursed along with mankind because of sin!!! Read the Bible for yourself for a change and you might see that.
Plus you have not shown the “gay” gene!!!
•
Monica Kozeny
I am so glad that you believe in God. I apologize if I come off strong. I love God and love people and that is why I speak out. Sin is killing people and immoral people who practice sin are promoting their lifestyle to no end. This causes innocent people to suffer. God always wants to protect the innocent. As a believer I am called to be salt. Salt stops decay among other things. Sin causes decay so I must speak out against sin (decay). I love the way believers are told to be quiet while immoral people are commended for preaching their way of life in the streets (homosexual gay pride parades).
From what I have seen, liberals are the most anti-God people on this earth. They promote their agenda for everyone to hear. I, the one who has the Truth of the Word of God, am expected to sit back and not get involved. I am against the liberal argument and not he liberal himself (love the sinner but hate the sin). I apologize for coming off strong. I am called to defend the Word of God and I will do it.
I like the way that you defend those who attack me but chastise me for pointing out what was obvious.
Pharisees were not Christians, they were non-Christians. Please do not equate religious with Christian. God is not impressed by religious people. He wants people who will follow Him completely. I have never condemned anyone. The Word of God however has ALREADY CONDEMED SIN. If you do not like that then your problem is not with me it is with God (please work it out). This is a direct quote against vulgar language and much much more.
Again I am attacking the ideas. I am sorry if I can off a little strong. I have to stand up for what the Word says and take on the enemies of Jesus Christ (study Covenant and you will know what I am talking about). Those who speak against the Word of God and Jesus Christ are enemies of God so I must speak. I do it to introduce them to the Truth. If I remain silent then they will not hear the Word.
I appreciate your comment. By the way a little bit of poison poisons the entire glass of clean pure water.
• Erich Vieth
Again, God never called people to take concubines. Can you show me a direct quote that says that? God created marriage between 1 man and 1 woman.
“Seven hundred wives!” “Three hundred concubines!” Damn, it IS good to be the king!
Erik Brewer says above: "The Bible has ONE interpretation."
If this were true, one wonders why there are thousands of competing Christian denominations, synods, and sects all differing primarily in their interpretation of some point or other of The Bible.
What of the Jewish, Zoroastrian, and Muslim sects that all also claim this unique, correct interpretation of the Bible?
What about Herman Cummings, who claims to be the “foremost terrestrial authority on the book of Genesis.” and vocally denounces many common fundamentalist ideals.
• Dan Klarmann
People can be wrong (are wrong many times) because of the sin factor. Man being wrong does not make the Bible wrong. God has One train of thought and develops it in His Scriptures. He also gives the Holy Spirit to born again Christians so that they can understand God’s thought.
If the Scriptures are studied in a systematic way with the revelation of the Holy Spirit then the right interpretation can be made. Many times people rush through a passage and try to give their own interpretation of what God says. Just let God speak, you will be amazed.
Erik wrote:—”Why are homosexuals so insistent on getting curriculum in public schools that “teach” (brainwash) little kids (why do they not try with grown people who can think for themselves?)? You know why, because they need new “converts” and in order to do that they prey on young minds that are forming.”
Bullshit.
The best way to overcome fear of a group people know little or nothing about is to educate people about that group. You dispell fear and hate in the glaring light of information. That’s why they call it Enlightenment. In exactly the same way African-Americans insisted on black studies programs in the 70s, so the majority population would get the information needed to stop believing all the stereotypes and misinformation put out by true propagandists. The same way American Indians pushed for serious courses on their history, so Americans in general would stop acting as if all they ever wanted to do was kill, scalp, and hunt buffalo. To learn about someone is to learn not to fear them. A lesson obviously lost on you.
You say you do not hate gays—yet in putting forth this bile, you paint a picture of them that can only produce fear if believed, and fear leads to hate, and hate leads to violence, and we all know where that ends up. Your doing your level, christian best to make sure your children never know about the boogie men you seem bent on seeing around every textbook.
I think this has passed the point of entertaining.
“The Bible has ONE interpretation.” You should consider the many faces of Christianity: http://dangerousintersection.org/2006/05/29/the-many-faces-of-christianity/.
Just a reminder that the example of “homosexual brainwashing in public schools” that Erik linked to was actually from a private religious school. Another example of grumpypilgrim’s comment above. Is Erik suggesting that the government should interfere with the curricula of private religious schools who are not teaching his interpretation of the Bible?
Another question for Erik: do you think death by torture (stoning) is an appropriate punishment for adultery? Why or why not?
“Read the Bible for yourself for a change and you might see that.”
Erik, with all due respect, I never want to be anything like you or any other religious extremists such as Phelps and Bin Laden. I refuse to be part of your Cruel (imaginary) God’s Kingdom. So I’m keeping the bible away from myself and my loved ones, and when I go to hotels I use the bible pages to clean my holy regions. (anti-spam word = irked)
Ben, there’s an invention called toilet paper.
This is where I get the conceited feeling from, whenever you post. You assume you’re even posting the truth, when really you’re just spouting right wing propaganda and young earth creationist bullshit.
1. The bible is not true, because, in practice and research, the prophecies that come from my dog are more accurate than the bible. You seem to forget that the bible was written a few decades after all the events supposedly happened, and that it was written over a few more decades by different people. Shit was added, taken out, misconstrued, and its an overall grabbag of shit.
Ever heard of Tyre? According to the bible, it was supposed to be completely leveled, and turned into a desolate wasteland, never to be settled again, ever. Well now…Go take some time to google it. It still exists, and is thriving. http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/proph/long.html Should dampen your words on the prophecy part a bit, but I doubt you’ll look.
Wait…wait just a minute, did you call all women who have had sex before marriage ‘used goods’? You incredibly sexist male, your bible was written during a time when women were considered inferior.
I know a certain brunette who would be happy to castrate you and cast your useless junk into a vat of hydrochloric acid, and I hope your wife realizes your sexist shit before she ends up another baby-machine.
Ah, but progress scares you…Getting children educated about sex, pregnancy prevention, and std’s violates your sensibilities. How come, then, do I see educated people making educated decisions about having sex, not having kids when they can’t support them, and making relationships that last, when your touted abstinence only sex ed is responsible for the rise in teen pregnancy?
http://ari.ucsf.edu/science/reports/abstinence.pdf will take you to a summary of AO versus comprehensive sex ed.
Sorry (not really), but AO fails. Exceptional failure. Stop supporting something patently hazardous for our youth, you sexist pig.
• Mark Tiedemann
Big propaganda term used here, “educate”. Hitler “educated” the Germans about the Hebrews, Lenin and Stallion also “educated” the Russians about communism etc. History goes on and on about your “education”. Cut through the rhetoric and you see “education” for you really means propaganda.
Here you go again comparing genetics with choices. African Americans have no choice but to be that way because that is the way they are born. Homosexuals, on the other hand, make a choice to be homosexual every single day. Comparing apples to oranges is a great propaganda tool that you guys use. Better to compare homosexuals to murders because both are a choice and both cause terrible destruction.
Calling things out as they are is not hateful. If homosexuality leaves death and destruction in its wake and you guys cover that up and I am trying to warn people then who is the vile one? Answer that question for me.
• grumpypilgrim
The argument that you have is based on the new age (actually old age to tell the truth because there is nothing new under the sun), I am talking about relativism. Just because you believe something with all of your heart does not make it true. You have to get over that barrier in order to realize the reality of life!!!
• Vicki Baker
Please read some more in the article and you will see that the video is a training tool for public school teachers to teach in many, many public schools all over the country. Also, speaking in other parts of the world (America is not the center of the universe), I lived in a country where homosexual activists introduced manuals in public schools without anyone’s (not even the minister of education) permission. The course was terrible. Do you know where they started? Kindergarten!!! It is terrible to see how sly and deceitful that they can be.
One, Vicki, I know a loaded question when I see one but I will answer this for you because I want to help. In Israel there was a theocracy set up by God. He chose to punish sexual sin by death. Why? Because immorality leads to death (STD’s and other problems). Also sin (immorality) spreads. The old saying “it takes 2 to tango” fits well here. If not punished then it will overtake a nation. Plus those who had thought of commiting sexual sin or actually done it without being caught, he/she would have to watch the guilty punished, thinking, I should be in that position. As you see, God punishes sexual immorality with death. Plus there is a victim in adultery, the spouse whose heart/live was torn apart. Please do not forget about the victim!!! Today we do not have a theocracy but God is still in control. We do not punish immorality with death; in fact the reason that we have the Gospel (Good News of Jesus Christ) is to help people get out of the mess of immorality and God wants to forgive them of their mistake. God still punishes immorality with death (how do people get STD’s and what do they lead to?). The problem with immorality today is the same; it spreads and brings death and destruction.
• Ben
I am not Phelps or Laden my friend. I do not want anyone killed for their mistakes. I want them to repent and follow Jesus Christ because that is what God wants for them. Look you can do whatever you want. Attacking me does no good. I am just the messenger. In fact if you would read those pages that you use inappropriately then you might know that all through out history people like you have persecuted the messengers of God’s message. I feel sorry for your kids. You know, the Bible actually speaks to you on this subject when Jesus says,
Matthew 23:13
“But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut off the kingdom of heaven from people; for you do not enter in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.
I know that there is some tough language here but this is reality and Jesus Christ means it. If you have a problem please take it up with Him. He wants you to repent and your family as well. Repentance is a change of mind that leads to a change of heart which leads to a changed life.
• Mobius 1
You assume that I am right winged, bad assumption. The problem with you guys is that you assume way too much!!!! I believe in a young earth because that is what God’s Word says. If you do not want to believe that then that is your choice. You can follow the cult of evolution and believe their doctrine if you want to, it is your choice. Instead of being open minded and allowing others to believe differently than you, you are closed minded, come on Mr. Free thinker!!!
Prove one OT prophesy that has come true wrong. There are a few OT prophecies that have not happened yet but they will. Just because they have not happened yet does not mean that they are not true. Be very careful about your arguments. Can you prove where stuff was added? You just have your ideas which frankly, are not worth much. Do you know how the scribes copied the OT? They would number the words and on the copied manuscript if they did not have the same word in the middle of the document then the entire copied document would be burned. They were very persistent. Study a little bit before you make such bold accusations. With the Tyre thing, did you ever think that a new city can be named with the name of an old one? Ever heard of New York? Ever heard of Moscow? Do you know how many Moscows are in the USA? Think Mr. Free thinker!!!
Here we go again, both men and women who have sex before marriage are used goods. You guys are the best at misrepresenting quotes. I wonder if you can read well, or do you intentionally misuse quotes? It happens so much that I am leaning to the second choice!
Man you got a lot of hate. God can take that away. He did it for me and can do it for anyone. In God’s eyes, men and women are equal, He created them both in the image of Himself!!!
I am all about progress but what you guys say by progress means immorality and all sorts of evil that will destroy society and not progress it.
Relationships that last are based on the Word of God and not on what you “think, feel, or believe” because those things can change like the weather.
Thanks for all of the name calling. Right out of the liberal handbook. Keep up the good work and you might get an A in the course!!!
Erik Brewer has managed to invalidate every possible avenue of meaningful communication with anyone here. He has shown himself incapable of making fine distinctions. I’m not sure he can make rough distinctions. It’s his way (or, as he might say, god’s way) or the highway. We have here a perfect example of what might be termed cul-de-sac thinking. If something disagrees with him, it is (a) an assumption (b) propaganda (c) apples and oranges or (d) immorality.
Mr. Brewer. You have catalogued for us a prescription for policies that would render this world even worse to live in than it is. Proof as a concept has no meaning for you. You have elected to rely on the Bible for absolutely everything and there is no room for anything else. It should come as no surprise to you that people disagree with your conclusions.
Comes a point when it is time to simply stop wasting everyone’s time. It is not even so much that you are wrong, but that your entire world view is so far out of whack with reality that there is no basis for any critical analysis. You ask us to provide counterarguments to positions which are de facto ridiculous and offer proofs for things you have already denied are real.
If you have a shred of understanding involving physics on any level, I will leave you with a question to ponder. In all likelihood you won’t understand the implications, but you might.
If, as you believe, the universe is young, on the order of 6000 years old, and it was all created in a flash by the almighty—created to operate as it now does—then my question is this: where did all the heat go?
Don’t answer quickly. Think about it. And I hope you have a good time doing so.
The heat went to hell where it’s used to grill sinners like you, Mark. God would never waste good energy. We should all take him as a role model.
What a silly question…
I second Mark’s thought. It’s time to move on. I don’t accept authority as a reason for anything at all. As long as Erik won’t address that issue of why he presumes the literal truth of the Bible, nothing is really worth discussing.
I do appreciate everyone’s time and effort, though. I think we can clearly see the fault line between fundamentalist and skeptical thinkers: Fundamentalists start with a theory and then spin facts to fit the pre-ordained theory. Skeptics test facts, keeping those that seem solid, then develop theories that make sense of those facts.
Two ships passing in the night, it seems.
The final straw was Erik’s refusal to fully describe his idea of sexual utopia. What would the government and church do to keep youngsters (and adults) chaste? Whatever he would have come up with, he wouldn’t have been able to point to any real life place in the world where such an approach is utilized, except perhaps in some areas where the Taliban are in still charge.
projektleiterin ,
Silly me! Of course! Pardon me for being so simplistic.
(And my anti-spam word this time, appropriately enough, is TOASTED)
• Mark Tiedemann
It is funny but the so called “free thinkers” get so upset when someone disagrees with them and now they are trying to turn their own motto against me. It is God’s way or the highway. You do not have to believe it, that is your choice. I find it ironic that “free thinkers” are free until it comes to God and then they want to close that door tight. Where is the freedom? My big toe does more free thinking than you guys. Why don’t you call this blog think like we do or else, because in essence that is your argument. Pointing out the fallacies in a person’s argument is all that I am doing and the “free thinkers” hate it when someone proves them wrong with evidence when they go on assumptions. Sorry but I have to call it as it is. People can disagree until the end of time with what the Bible says but that does not change the reality of things. People have tried to disprove the Word of God (the Bible) from the beginning of time but they have not been successful. People come and go but the Word of God remains, sorry but your argument again is just wrong. I am not surprised that people disagree with the Bible, that was Satan’s tactic form the beginning and he is still working even today.
If people do not agree with “free thinkers” then they try to turn everything around with deception and misquotes. Sorry that you think people who do not agree with you waste your time. Go ahead and surround yourself with only those who think like you (that is what Hitler and Stalin did). If you cannot argue against what I say then just admit it and move on, don’t dress up your loss with rhetoric (liberal school training).
• Erich Vieth
All of the claims of the OT have come to pass as God said that they would and there are a few that will. How much more proof do you need?
Also God promises that He will change the life of a sinner and set him free from his life long slavery to sin. He has done that in my life and in the lives of many others. What more proof do you need? He promised that Israel would never cease to exist and it still exists today, what more proof do you need?
Just avoiding the facts is not a solution but that is what skeptics seem to do. I have explained the solution about sexuality. I know that people are stubborn and do not want to listen to God. In fact they think that they know better than God about life. If they want to think that way then God removes His barrier of protection and lets them do what they want. He warns them of the consequences and gives them the choice. They choice to induldge the desires of their flesh and then when they start reaping the consequences they want to blame God, when in reality it is their own falt. That is mankind’s situation today. The solution is to return to God in repentance and faith, living according to His Word. I know you do not want to hear that but it is the Truth. I have seen prostitutes, drug addicts, pimps, thieves, etc. come to Jesus Christ in repentance and now they are model citizens, investing in the lives of others so that they too can have a changed life. I know that is hard for you to imagine but it happens on a daily basis. I want all to experience that even though I know that most will not because of their own choice.
I will not be silent because I have the message of hope for a suffering world. I hope that God has used some of this to speak to some of you. I am here to help because someone once helped me.
“I hate homosexuality but not the homosexuals who practice it.”
Isn’t that a bit like saying you hate black skin but not the black people who wear it?
“The Bible has ONE interpretation.”
Well that’s the entire profession of theology taken care of then… :-))
[anti-spam word: "darwin". Yay! Go, Darwin!]
Peter Magellan
The problem with most theology is that the Bible is rarely studied. Mostly students of theology study about the Bible, there is a huge difference, I hope you realize that.
Obviously you have not read most of the stuff I have written. You cannot compare genetics (black skin) to homosexuality (a choice). Either you are deceived or you are deliberately trying to deceive others, which is it?