In exactly what ways should we keep our children ignorant about sex?

September 16, 2008 | By | 121 Replies More

At DI, we have an extremely conservative fellow visiting the blog these days.  He’s trying to convert all of us to his reactionary world view.  He clings to his Bible as a book of literal truths and he seems to love everything that Sarah Palin ostensibly stands for. I’d like to issue a challenge to this fellow, who goes by the name “Erik.”  To me, he represents many people out there who seem to believe that if you pretend something isn’t important, it isn’t important, even if it IS important.  This includes such critical topics as as Iraq, the cobbled together all-too-human nature of the Bible, Global Warming and, of course, sex education.

Please tell me which of the following sexual education topics you would rather that our children not know anything about.  Please tell me in what specific ways we should keep children, including teenagers, in the dark.

These topics are actually the chapters of a popular book that I have read.  I would wholeheartedly recommend this book to any parent seeking a sex education book for their children:  It’s Perfectly Normal: Changing Bodies, Growing Up, Sex, and Sexual Health (2004), by Robie H. Harris (Author), Michael Emberley (Illustrator).  Here are the topics:

Part I – What is Sex
Girl or Boy, Female or Male (sex and gender)
Making Babies (Sexual Reproduction)
Strong Feelings (Sexual Desire)
Making Love (Sexual intercourse)
Straight and Gay (Heterosexuality and homosexuality)

Part II – Our Bodies
The Human Body (All kinds of bodies)
Outside and Inside  (The Female Sex Organs)
Outside and Inside  (The Male Sex Organs)
Words  (Talking about Bodies and Sex)

Part III – Puberty
Changes and Messages (Puberty and Hormones)
The travels of the Egg (Female Puberty)
The Travels of the Sperm (Male Puberty)
Not all at Once! (Growing and Changing Bodies)
More Changes (Taking care of your Body)
Back and Forth: (Up and Down – New and Changing Feelings)
Perfectly Normal:  (Masturbation)

Part IV – Babies and Families
All sorts of Families (Taking care of babies and kids)
Instructions from Mom and Dad (The Cell, genes and chromosomes)
A kind of Sharing:  (Cuddling, kissing, touching and sexual intercourse)
Before Birth: (Pregnancy)
What a Trip! (Birth)
Other Arrivals (More ways to have a baby and family, including adoption)

Part V – Decisions
Planning Ahead (postponement, abstinence and birth control)
Laws and Rulings (abortion)

Part VI – Staying Healthy
Talk about it (sexual abuse)
Checkup (Sexually Transmitted Diseases)
Scientists Working Day and Night (HIV and AIDS)
Staying Healthy (Responsible Choices).

So what is it, Erik?  Should we avoid teaching our children about puberty? Sexual feelings? Masturbation?  Shall we keep our kids from knowing anything about any of these sex-ed topics?  Truly, tell me exactly how ignorant you want to keep America’s children and teenagers.  Should we keep this book out of America’s public libraries?  Should this book even be sold at all?   You are aware, aren’t you, that many parents are so mentally stymied about sex (because their own parents thought it better to keep them ignorant) that they don’t have a clue about how to communicate these sex-ed ideas to their kids.  Shouldn’t those parents have access to a book like this to provide them with clear information about compelling topics?

Here’s a caveat to those people who want to live in ignorance:  you can peek in this book at Amazon–beware that you might learn something.

For a little journey that is pretty amazing, though not unexpected, take a look at the comments regarding this book at Amazon and you’ll be Amazed at the cultural chasm displayed.  This book typically gets either 5 stars (from people who want their kids to be informed about these important topics) or 1 star (by people who want to keep their kids ignorant about sex).  Too bad Bristol Palin didn’t have a book like this a year ago.

Because you might actually learn something important by reading it, It’s Perfectly Normal is one of the top ten challenged books of 2007, according to the Economist.

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Category: American Culture, Censorship, Education, Health, Medicine, Religion, Reproductive Rights, Sex

About the Author ()

Erich Vieth is an attorney focusing on consumer law litigation and appellate practice. He is also a working musician and a writer, having founded Dangerous Intersection in 2006. Erich lives in the Shaw Neighborhood of St. Louis, Missouri, where he lives half-time with his two extraordinary daughters.

Comments (121)

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  1. Erik Brewer says:

    Mark Tiedemann

    Atheism is a religion, the worship of man. I know it angers you that you cannot argue against the Bible and win but that is the reality and will be. I have not gotten into a huff. I know the Word of God and proclaim It. You guys are the ones who have gotten angry and started with the childish name calling and foul language. By the way, the uneducated are masters at foul language so I would choose a different way to communicate. So name calling and foul language shows courtesy on you guys’ part? So an academic has to put his ability to think aside, is that what you are saying? In order to be a true “free thinker” I must put my views (the Bible’s views) aside, no thanks!!!

  2. Erik Brewer says:

    • Mobius 1

    Again, you want to promote immorality and give teens a false sense of security when you know good and well that condoms do not protect anywhere near 100%!!! Passing out condoms promotes immorality. Sorry, but sin makes gay people miserable. So you are saying that homosexuals have the right to impose their lifestyle on me and if I stand up for my rights then I am a bigot. Good logic on your part. Why is it that homosexuals (and their supporters) want to call a person who stands up to immorality a “closet homosexual”. I will assure you that I am not homosexual. If they grew into their homosexuality then that is proof that it is a choice. Thanks for the impute!!! Thanks for the childish name calling.

  3. Erich Vieth says:

    Three cheers for Sam! Thanks for joining the discussion! Thanks for bringing in your much-needed perspective, common sense and kindness. Truly.

  4. Vicki Baker says:

    Yes, welcome Sam! We heretics should stick together! You know that if the Christian Reconstructionists take over, Christians who are the "wrong" kind of Christian will be on the firing line (or should I say stoning line) with us pagans. 🙂

    PS: I wonder if anyone has thought of manufacturing a keyboard with a built-in triple exclamation!!! It would save some from repetitive stress injury.

  5. Erik Brewer says:

    So Erich, anything that goes against the Bible is common sense. Deceiving people is considered kindness? That is a new one for me. Thanks for the input.

  6. Vicki Baker says:

    As I said earlier (you obviously did not read) trying to be abstinent without Jesus Christ will never work, it is impossible!!! That is why we need to teach sex ed from a Biblical perspective.

    You can do that in Sunday School, but not in a public school, with my tax dollars. Since even abstinence with Christ appears to be less than 100% effective (Bristol Palin, all the numerous pastors caught having sex with prostitutes) maybe it wouldn't hurt to provide them with a back up plan so that their "sins" will have less chance of punishing the innocent.

  7. Erik Brewer says:

    • Vicki Baker

    I am giving you the answer that WILL work. You do not have to agree with it. By the way, since God was removed from public schools in the 60’s the educational system has been on a down hill spiral ever since (maybe there is a connection) but liberals fight tooth and nail to keep God out at the expense of our children (have you seen what it is like in the public school’s today?) As long as God is left out it is only going to get worse, you can count on it, tax dollars or not!!!

    You assume that everyone who claims the name of Jesus Christ is a true follower. God is the judge of that. We can tell who a person is by his/her actions (what is on the inside will come to the outside, ie good tree good fruit, bad tree bad fruit). People do make mistakes and can be forgiven by the way (I guess liberals do not believe that). Also, you want to judge all Christians by what you have seen a few do. I am faithful to God and my wife, ie abstinence before marriage and fidelity in marriage through the power of Jesus Christ, what do you have to say about that?

    Look, I am not the enemy, sin is the enemy. You are not my enemy. I am not fighting against flesh and blood but principalities (evil/sin). People will come and go but sin will remain, until God does away with it totally. I want to help people break out of the sin trap that they are in with the power of Jesus Christ. Many will reject it but that is ok because some will receive it. In fact a young woman took that step this weekend, repenting of her sins and receiving forgiveness and a new life. Wouldn’t you like that too (be honest)?

  8. Mobius 1 says:

    Erik wrote – I am giving you the answer that WILL work. You do not have to agree with it. By the way, since God was removed from public schools in the 60’s the educational system has been on a down hill spiral ever since (maybe there is a connection) but liberals fight tooth and nail to keep God out at the expense of our children (have you seen what it is like in the public school’s today?) As long as God is left out it is only going to get worse, you can count on it, tax dollars or not!!!

    Your answer hasn't worked at all. AO has been proven to be ineffective for education. I've given you evidence and links to the evidence repeatedly. I can't force you to read it, much to my chagrin, because you need your consciousness raised very, very badly.

    Public schools have been 'going down hill' because the government keeps trimming off funding for them. Your god had nothing to do with it, although the followers sure had something to do with it. Example being, the catholic private school in my hometown is the northern half of town, the public school the southern half. A government program to give more to the public school, so we could have updated textbooks, better computers, the whole nine yards, was rejected, because the parents of the private school kids didn't want the public school to be up to speed with the current curriculum. Was that fair?

    If you're so against public education, send your kids to a private school. Simple and stupid, just like you want. By the way, the teen pregnancy at that private school was horrendous. They taught AO before it was popular.

    Maybe if the republicans stopped spending so much on weapons tech and handouts to the rich, and concentrated more on education, we wouldn't be so far behind other countries in every category. One Japanese student can run circles around a whole classroom of our students.

    Erik wrote – You assume that everyone who claims the name of Jesus Christ is a true follower. God is the judge of that. We can tell who a person is by his/her actions (what is on the inside will come to the outside, ie good tree good fruit, bad tree bad fruit). People do make mistakes and can be forgiven by the way (I guess liberals do not believe that). Also, you want to judge all Christians by what you have seen a few do. I am faithful to God and my wife, ie abstinence before marriage and fidelity in marriage through the power of Jesus Christ, what do you have to say about that?

    And who do you think you are, defining what a true follower is? Are you an expert? Obviously not, judging by your conduct here. A mistake can be forgiven, it's an honest one.

    It's when people continuously do it, is when forgiveness isn't warranted. You've continuously acted condescendingly against the people here, ignored facts given to you about why your position is wrong, and haven't even apologized for acting like a jackass.

    I'm not inclined to forgive you, or even show courtesy regarding your position. I wasn't in the first place, and that hasn't changed.

    So you did all the fidelity, abstinence, and marriage through Jesus Christ, eh? How about, doing it for yourself, proving that you're not a coward. Which, if you need a crutch like Christ to get through your daily life, you're pretty much the epitome of the weak christian, never to rise above belief, always the follower, never a leader. You didn't forge your own path. You took what others have done, and did the exact same thing. You've lost your individuality, and until you realize what you've lost, you'll remain that way.

    Erik wrote – Look, I am not the enemy, sin is the enemy. You are not my enemy. I am not fighting against flesh and blood but principalities (evil/sin). People will come and go but sin will remain, until God does away with it totally. I want to help people break out of the sin trap that they are in with the power of Jesus Christ. Many will reject it but that is ok because some will receive it. In fact a young woman took that step this weekend, repenting of her sins and receiving forgiveness and a new life. Wouldn’t you like that too (be honest)?

    This is just more drivel, coming from a weak-minded individual, namely, you.

    Sin is just the product of religion, like the thetans from scientology. Just something you can guilt people with, if they're susceptible to that.

    And, quite honestly, you can take your religious dogma, and shove it. Once a believer, now an atheist, I've had my fill of that pious bullshit. The new life you speak of is one of servitude to a figment of the imagination, and it only leads to pure, grade A delusion and mass insanity.

  9. Erik Brewer says:

    • Mobius 1

    Again, you try to argue that 100% effective is not good enough. I wonder where you studied math. Again, without the power of Jesus Christ a person cannot follow an abstinence program (because of slavery to sin, a slave does not do what he wants but what his master “sin” forces him to do). I have said it before and I will say it again, I had a sex ed class forced upon me in high school, I know what it is all about. Immorality was glorified and we were told how well condoms “protect” us. They failed to teach two very important things, 1) condoms do not protect a person’s heart (emotions) once those are destroyed your in for a lot of pain and suffering (could be avoided by trusting in God to give you the right person and enjoy for the rest of your life), 2) the fact that condoms do not protect anywhere near 100% against STD’s. Many of my classmates bought the lie that sex ed was teaching and have had their lives destroyed (emotionally, physically with STD’s, even while using condoms). So, please do not talk to me like I do not know what I am writing about. I have been there, been deceived by the lies and thank God, had my eyes opened to His Truth. That is why I will not be silent!!!

    Throwing more money at schools is not the solution. I agree we do need more funding but putting a bandage over a gaping wound will not solve the problem. The problem is the fact that God was taken out of the schools and out of many homes and as a result children are being raised without values. If you teach people not to have values then their lifestyles will begin to reflect it.

    Here you go again putting words in my mouth (typical). I never said that I am against public education. I received a secular public education myself so please do not continue saying that I said what I clearly did not say!!!

    So now you call people who go to private schools stupid. You might want to reconsider that statement, maybe even apologize.

    I see you do not care much for republicans either. You seem to dislike a lot of people. Did that happen before or after you supposedly left Christianity?

    God is the expert of who a true follower is and He tells us how we can recognize if first WE are true followers and then if others are.

    Matthew 7:21

    21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

    Matthew 7:24 24 "Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock.

    The will of the Father is to hear the words of Jesus Christ (the Bible) and act upon them (live by them).

    1 John 2:19

    19 They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.

    When a person walks away from the faith, he/she proves that he/she was not really part of the faith (a good pretender for a while). Read what God says and you will begin to see things more clearly. Unfortunately you have been deceived by people who are in the business of deception, the problem is, they do not know they are deceived (usually)

    Sharing what the Bible says is not acting condescendingly, yes the Bible does condemn but with the purpose to show you that you are condemned and need help. God is ready to forgive if you will repent (return to Him).

    Here we go again with the childish remarks, please grow up. When I was a child I spoke like a child because I thought like a child but now that I am a man I speak like a man. It would be good for you to do the same.

    Wow, the crutch argument (very original). By the way, do you guys have anything that is original? I thought free thinkers prided themselves on their originality. We are all followers, that is the way God made us. Every person on this earth follows someone (looks up to a hero or idol). Facts are facts. The question is not if you are following it is who are you following. I know that I am a follower so I choose to follow the only true way (common sense).

    Why do we frown upon murder? Because it is a sin and there is no justification for it. Sticking your fingers in your ear singing la la la does not remove the reality of things. Why do so many people feel guilty because of their wrong actions? Not because religion told them so, it is because God has put that idea in each and every person born into this world.

    All of us are servants, either we serve sin or we serve God. Believers serve God will nonbelievers serve the lust of the flesh. The reality is, we all serve something or someone. Again, denying reality does not change reality.

  10. grumpypilgrim says:

    Erik wrote, “By the way, if homosexuality is not a choice then how can there be former homosexuals?”

    I observed, "We might just as easily ask, 'if heterosexuality is not a choice then how can there be former heterosexuals?'” I then explained how there can be both former homosexuals and former heterosexuals without either sexual preference being a choice for everyone. Obviously, homosexuality is a choice for some people but not for others, just as heterosexuality is a choice for some people but not for others.

    Erik responded to my comment with a non-answer, so I will again point out that Erik's argument completely ignores evidence that is contrary to his belief. I will also point out, again, that many (most?) homosexuals are just as absolute in their sexual preference as are many (most?) heterosexuals. To suggest, as Erik has, that homosexuality is a choice for every homosexual is just as absurd as arguing that heterosexuality is a choice for every heterosexual. For the people I know (both homosexual and heterosexual), it's simply not a choice.

  11. Erik Brewer says:

    grumpypilgrim

    I choose to be heterosexual every single day. I was born male and therefore my sexuality is demonstrated toward female (not rocket science). A male who demonstrates his sexuality toward another male has chosen to be homosexual. It is a choice.

    By the way, you never answered my question. Should pedophiles not be punished because they were born that way?

  12. Erich Vieth says:

    Erik: if you were born a male who is strongly attracted to females, then when you act on that attraction to females it doesn't seem like you're choosing much of anything. You're going with the flow. Sorry, no trophies are awarded to heterosexuals who choose sexual relations with members of the opposite sex.

    Your choice is no choice at all. It is the absence of a choice.

    Same thing with gays who were born strongly homosexual.

    Most gay men I know (and I know a dozen fairly well) were obviously different, even back in grade school. They didn't choose anything at all. Just like YOU. Why can't you just leave them alone and let them live in peace? I'm referring to the 99.9% of gays who don't molest children–why not just let them be? If your answer is the Bible, then tell me the scriptural passage where Jesus said anything about gay people? That's right: there is no such passage.

    Pedophiles are harming innocent victims. Most gays (excluding thousands of Catholic priests) are engaging in sex ONLY with consenting adults. Do you see the difference? Victims versus NO victims?

    Speaking of Catholics, you are reminding me of the current Pope, who has claimed that all OTHER religions are defective. http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/07/18/pope-

  13. Erik Brewer says:

    Erich Vieth Says:

    I was born a male and I choose to be heterosexual, ie show my affection to a woman (how hard is that to understand?). Homosexuals like everybody make a choice to practice their lifestyle.

    I will stop speaking out about the sin of homosexuality when they stop imposing their lifestyle on society and teaching others about their lifestyle. Again, how is it fair you to allow them to impose yet tell me to remain silent. I am not picking on them. They are the ones sending out their message everywhere.

    Oh, you want to talk about what Jesus said. You guys are like parrots, repeating the same arguments. I have been waiting for this one.

    Matthew 19:4-6

    4 And He answered and said, "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, 5 and said, 'FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH '? 6 "So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate."

    I know that this is in the context of divorce and remarriage but Jesus Himself says that marriage is between a man and a woman. He does not leave any room for homosexuality here.

    Matthew 11:23-24 23 "And you, Capernaum, will not be exalted to heaven, will you? You will descend to Hades; for if the miracles had occurred in Sodom which occurred in you, it would have remained to this day. 24 "Nevertheless I say to you that it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for you."

    Luke 17:29 29 but on the day that Lot went out from Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all.

    Jesus is addressing the unbelief of the cities that He preached in and what would happen because of their actions. He makes reference to Sodom (a city that was destroyed because of immorality, specifically homosexuality). I know that you will bring the argument that they were destroyed because of their lack of hospitality (stopping that before it starts) but if you read the account in Genesis 19 you will see clearly just how evil these homosexuals were and how they brought about the destruction of a city.

    Jesus says that they (the homosexuals) needed to repent of their sins. They will be judged along with the rest of the world for their sins (even though God has already poured out some of His wrath on them) there is more to come.

    My children are innocent victims and who are preyed upon by homosexual activist trying to force them to learn how to be gay. I cannot stand for that.

  14. Erich Vieth says:

    Erik:

    You say "They are the ones sending out their message everywhere."

    Who is "they"? It is not any of the gays I know. The gays I know are quietly living lives very much like many heterosexuals. They work hard at their jobs, they contribute to to their community through volunteer work, they like to see a good movie and they like to have stimulating conversation over tasty food.

    Here's what they don't do: They don't impose their gay sexual orientation on anyone else. They live quiet lives, to themselves. They've NEVER sexually enticed children. They want to not be harassed by people like you who try to stir up hatred and scorn toward them.

    Why don't you please answer my sincere question from before. Quit quoting the bible and, just for one post, pretend that you are emperor of the United States and that you can pass any law you want. Tell me about your utopia. What would you do about all of those gays out there? What about horny teenagers. You can impose any program and you can enforce it with the full police power of the state. Please, describe your idea of Utopia.

  15. Mobius 1 says:

    There YOU go again putting words into my mouth. Calling the kettle black, eh pot?

    You've got a lot to learn about hypocrisy, Erik. This little number right here:

    "Sticking your fingers in your ear singing la la la does not remove the reality of things."

    That's exactly what you're doing whenever you're proven wrong, which is every post we make. Since you follow a 2000 year old religion that was founded by a desert people, and has no real difference from any other religion, you're ignoring the very basic fact that christianity was to end before the last 'prophet' died.

    Right now, you're the one regurgitating bible verses, sticking your fingers in your ears and going la la la, because you refuse to even acknowledge the scientific evidence given to you, about how AO has failed, about how homosexuals didn't choose to be homosexuals, and how actual sex ed is far more effective than AO.

    You also make assumptions about the other posters way too much.

    "I see you do not care much for republicans either. You seem to dislike a lot of people. Did that happen before or after you supposedly left Christianity?"

    If I couldn't stand republicans, I'd be going insane in every town I go to, because of the one-sidedness of my area. It's the people that get elected that I can't stand. A person can be republican, christian, what the fuck ever they decide to affiliate with. If the person is a fucktard, then I'm not inclined to like them, regardless if they're christian, muslim, republican, democrat, or even an atheist. Just because they're a non-believer like me, doesn't mean I give them special leeway.

    I became much more tolerable after I left christianity, despite our exchanges. You qualify under the 'ignorant and pious' group that I dislike, and generally avoid. If you had come on here with a reasonable streak, I would've reacted differently, but you came here quoting bible verses and saying that you're right, no matter what we say or prove.

    You're unreasonable, impolite, discourteous, and have brought nothing here that a number of us here haven't heard before a thousand times over.

    And I won't apologize to anyone who goes to private schools. I've had naught, but negative experiences with students and faculty from every private school I visited and played against. They pay so much money to get in, then bitch about how the public schools get money from the government, which is how it's supposed to be.

    Haha, my anti-spam word is grumpy…How appropriate.

  16. Erik Brewer says:

    • Erich Vieth

    Again, I am being painted as a homosexual hater. Let me repeat I do not hate homosexuals. They are people created by God (not as homosexuals) and they need a relationship with God like everybody else. Doing good works does not justify practicing sin that destroys and puts society at risk. I am not comparing homosexuals to Satan but Satan himself does good in order to promote his destructive agenda. He can pose as an angel of light (non threatening) but his end result for people is pain and destruction. Read about the Sodomites in Genesis 19 and you will see some interesting tactics of homosexuals. The older ones had taught the younger ones to be homosexual (the same plan that homosexuals have today when they try to impose on our children, the next gen.). They are united and aggressive. I have been in an open round table discussions with homosexual groups and if given the chance they would have physically torn me apart (because their arguments were failing left and right). They are not stopped at all by the warning signs that God gives them (today AIDS is a huge neon warning sign but they continue on). Do you not see the evidence?

    You do not have to sexually entice a child in order to convince him to try homosexuality (just plant the seed in his mind). That is what they want to do, get you comfortable with the idea of homosexuality (see the Overhauling of Straight America).

    Here is what you do not understand, there is nothing that will work apart from the Bible. Do you not realize that? We took the Bible out of public school and look at the consequences we have today (violence, murder, rape, etc). You are asking for something that is impossible, a good world without the Word of God.

  17. Erik Brewer says:

    • Mobius 1 Says:

    Here is where you are wrong. No other religion in the world changes a person from the inside out (new heart/mind, the Bible says being born again (not to be confused with reincarnation) it is a spiritual rebirth). All other world religions teach from the outside in (they have it backwards). By the way, the Christian religion goes all the way back to Genesis with Abraham (the father of the believers).

    I am sharing the Truth of what the Bible verses say and how they apply to today’s world and the best you can come up with is what you said, keep on in la la land. There is hope for all but some are running away as fast as they can from that hope.

    As I have said before, if you divorce AO from Jesus Christ then AO is a dream that will fail every time. That is why AO needs to be taught from a Biblical perspective.

    Just basing my accusation about the republican dislike by the hateful words cast their way.

    See the earlier quote and Bible verse in reference to the vulgar language. Also vulgar language is usually a sign of lack of education but we will not jump to conclusions about you.

    Here we go with the childish name calling. I guess we will have to wait a few years until you grow up.

    I have been nothing but reasonable, the fact that you are dead set against the Bible makes you unreasonable.

    I have been very polite. I do not use vulgar language or call people names. Please look in the mirror as you make these comments about me!!!

  18. Erich Vieth says:

    This internet provider believes that natural body parts are per se "inappropriate." How sad. http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2009/02/to

  19. atheist says:

    Hi, I've just read this topic and found your site after Googling Erik Brewer. I recently engaged him on his blog about indoctrinating children with religion. I found the same type of replies as he does in other places. For me he is a dangerous nutter, he wants to recruit people through manipulation (including poor Haitians), and abuse his children with medieval type punishments and brainwashing.

    He has two children (recently another one, born in America although he says he lives in Moldavia, but hates any new health scheme in US, I hope he paid for his hospital fees). He vows to bring them up according to http://www.moldovacrestina.net/english/what-is-se
    who is his guru.

    This is not a question of simple homosexuality or abstinence, this is like going back two centuries.

    I don't see alot about the dangers of indoctrination of children, and I would like it included in the UN charter for childrens' rights.

    I even explained to Erik that (also according to my, and his own teenage changes of beliefs), it's not even a good idea for religious parents. It usually backfires and their efforts were in vain.

    But, that is not my main point. I'm wondering if you know any people or scientific research done on the results of teaching children irrational beliefs, from the neurological point of view. Because I consider, from my own experience of life and many others, that the brain becomes 'wired' with it and even if at some point a teenager or a young adult rejects their childhood religion, they will remain credulous to other irrational beliefs. They might be less affected if they receive science education and good counter influence, but not all do.

    The weight of psychological influence is usually more studied and considered, but I see much less on the neurological. I guess it's because it's not interesting from the industry point of view.

    BTW I live in France and although these fundamentals try and spread their vile propaganda, someone like him and his guru would be considered a cult and become surveyed by the police and social services.

  20. NIklasu Pfirsig says:

    Erik Brewer has a website and on a few occasions, he has "borrowed" material from this blog without proper acknowledgments to edit into is postings there. He lurks here from time to time and is annoying predictable.

    Anyhow, somewhere on his site, he names his mentor, but I don't recall the name.

    Some people only believe what they want to believe.

  21. atheist says:

    Hi, sorry for the delay, his guru is Vasile Filat, with the blog that I posted above.

    If you read that page, with EriK Brewer's comments in tune with Vasiles', you can see how perverted they are, for ex : people are not allowed to even touch each other before marriage ! I wonder if Erik Brewer touched or kissed his present wife before marriage, you bet he did, he's a liar and a pervert, I guess, in normal societies, they shouldn't even be allowed to keep their children if social workers read this sort of stuff.

    He thinks beating children with a belt for 'reasonable' punishments is normal because it's written in the bible, but what is 'normal' when you see what they say ? I would like to see people denounce this type of thing, but is it possible in America, where anything goes, anyone does as they like ?

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