Once in a while, I tune into KJSL, a St. Louis Christian talk radio station. I do this as part of a conscious effort to make myself listen to people with views that are dramatically different from my own. Perhaps I will understand those views better if I take the time to listen more.
While I was driving last week, the station featured a show called “News and Views,” hosted by a man named “Dr. Larry Bates.” The host repeatedly painted the future of the US as bleak, thanks to irresponsible financial policies by the federal government. Because I have some sympathy with that general conclusion, I continued to listen. It turned out that Bates was predicting the imminent financial collapse of the United States. Although I doubted that conclusion, I continued to listen.
Bates then indicated that he is also a big proponent of religious “End Times.” In short, he believes that Jesus will soon be returning to Earth in order to sort things out. I have no sympathy for this religious view. In fact, I find End Times beliefs to be irresponsible and destructive for the numerous reasons. For example, I do not hold the Bible to be inerrant. Based on my study of the Bible, although it offers some good stories and some reasonable moral instruction, it is also rife with bad advice, contradictions and senseless violence.
“Dr. Larry Bates” wears many hats. He claims to be an economist, publisher, editor, former member of the Tennessee House of Representatives, former bank CEO and a “nationally recognized expert on political systems and the Federal Reserve.” Bates is also the President of First American Monetary Consultants, Inc. (FAMC), an organization that allegedly does “economic and market forecasting, in addition to offering a wide variety of other End Times services. “News and Views” is a syndicated radio show, available dozens of radio stations across the U.S. Larry Bates is thus well known in some circles.
After listening to Bates for only a few minutes, I learned that the United States needs to immediately and mercilessly bomb Iran because of what “those people” have done to “support terrorism.” I also learned that we need to support Israel without question, based upon what the Bible says. I persevered to the end of the show, saddened by and frustrated with the flimsy manner in which Bates attempted to support his conclusions.
At the end of the show, it was announced that Bates was going to be featured at a half-day conference in St. Louis, I took the bait. I thought it would be interesting to better understand the basis for the views of End Times (both economic End Times and religious End Times) proponents. The conference was called “Perilous Times: Significant End Time Events.” I paid $20 and showed up at the Crystal Ballroom of the Renaissance St. Louis Grand and Suites Hotel in downtown St. Louis. Here’s my ticket:
At the registration desk, I received a folder full of information. One of the pamphlets advised me that legalized gay marriage is a major obstacle to democracy:
When the US Supreme Court ruled in Lawrence v. Texas last year that sodomy is a constitutional ‘right,’ the director of the lambda legal fund-a radical homosexual-agenda of pressure group-gleefully explained that this marks the beginning of the end to traditional marriage.
Another pamphlet advised that the United States is officially a Judeo-Christian nation. It quoted William Penn: “Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.” This pamphlet, printed by FAMC, “proves” that the United States is a Christian nation based upon the fact that the Constitutions of many of the states mention “God,” or “the Creator.” As though non-Christian religions don’t believe in a “God” or a “Creator.”
There were numerous products displayed and advertised at the conference. These products are the sorts of things you’ll need to have if you are going to be prepared for the economic and religious End Times. If you want to prevent cancer, you need to load up on Glutathione. The pamphlet says “your life depends on Glutathione.” To buy it, contact FAMC, according to the pamphlet.
What if you just want to make sure that you have access to “the most universal antibiotic” known to man, colloidal silver? It’s a “tasteless, odorless, non-toxic, purer, natural substance consisting of submicroscopic clusters of silver particles suspended by a tiny electric charge placed on each particle.” According to the pamphlet, you drink it. It kills all those pesky pathogens and protects all your good cells. According to the pamphlet, it is useful for treating allergies, boils, herpes, stomach flu, lime disease, gonorrhea, bladder irritations and chickenpox. The list goes on and on. Colloidal silver can be used vaginally, anally or dropped into the eyes.” You can even make your own colloidal silver out of silver wire, using the $189 generator you can buy from FAMC.
Another pamphlet advised me of my right to participate in jury nullification whenever anyone is being prosecuted for a gun crime. That is because “corrupted, anti-gun prosecutors and judges are common.” This information is distributed by the Fully Informed Jury Association.
After the economic collapse, you’ll need to make better use of all that expensive gasoline that all of us are going to need. Therefore, make sure you buy the “Power Plus Mpg” additive. Using this Power Plus, you can save 25 to $.50 per gallon. During his talk (which I’ll discuss in detail further down), Larry Bates bragged that his 5 mpg SUV improved its mileage 50% (to 7.5 mpg) after he started using this Power Plus. Those attending the conference were even invited to sign up as Power Plus distributors.
Additional Pamphlets were available advising how to support efforts to find those “30,000 POWs [who] were known to be behind alive after WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Persian Gulf and War on Terror.” There was also a table full of conservative-message bumper stickers.
The nice old fellow minding that table offered me a chance to take any one of those bumper stickers for free. I really struggled to find anything that didn’t offend my politics (maybe I am a liberal). After searching for a full minute, I picked up Smoke – Choke – Stroke – Croak.
I wasn’t really at the conference to dwell on the End Times products, however. I was there to listen to “Dr. Larry Bates,” just like the 200 other people who attended. Although the crowd included a handful of young adults, most of those attending were in their 60s or 70s. As is often the case with groups of conservative Christians, this was an extremely polite and orderly group. People held doors for each other and took time to exchange pleasantries.
Dr. Larry Bates introduced himself and then introduced a local preacher who opened the meeting with a prayer. Almost everyone bowed their heads respectfully. Then it was time to offer a few door prizes. The winners had a choice of two books: The Coming Financial Wipeout or America’s Christian Heritage.
Then it was time for four-hours of lecture. Bates bemoaned the lack of pastors in the audience. He complained that too many church leaders were “eating the sheep rather than feeding the sheep.” He asked for a show of hands of those who believe that we were in the last days, and perhaps a third of the audience raised their hand. When he asked whether we were in the very last days, 15% raised their hands.
Bates informed the audience that their job was to “raise up wisdom.” This has to be done by taking back the media, he explained, although “Fox news is one of our best news channels.”
He explained that the next election is the most important one ever. It will be about “class warfare.” The election whether we’ll have less government and bigger government. It’s between monopolistic versus competitive capitalism. Although the Republicans are imperfect, according to a distressed Bates, the only real choice in this upcoming election is Republican. More on this further down.
The United States is under attack by economic and political elitists who want to keep the middle class trapped as pawns and serfs in this elitist version of a caste system. These are desperate times, because “There are only two countries in the entire world where the middle class runs the government or has the opportunity to run the government: the United States and Israel.”
The elitists are “One World Socialists” according to Bates. They want to level everyone out to make everyone equally poor, except for themselves. A repeated target of Bates was the Federal Reserve, which “only looks federal and has no reserves.” Bates could barely contain his scorn for the Federal Reserve, which, he repeatedly emphasized, was totally owned by private bankers.
Bates is highly suspicious of George W. Bush’s “New World order.” It is a conspiracy against the people of the United States, and it amounts to “one world socialism,” an attempt to make everyone poor except for an elite ruling class. He exhorted that the creation of the Federal Reserve was a conspiracy to rob the American middle class. The Federal Reserve is a “criminal syndicate.” According to Bates, the head of the Federal Reserve is more powerful than the president of the United States. In all earnestness, he told the crowd that the 1938 panic-provoking radio adaptation of “War of the Worlds” was not entertainment. It was a test by the government elite to see if the federal government could maintain control over the New World Order.
What are the elitists trying to do? They are trying to create a North American Union. They want to merge the United States, Mexico and Canada and to destroy the sovereignty of the United States. That’s why we have a lax immigration policy, he warned. What’s the solution? “Build a fence and keep them out.” If the rate of immigration exceeds your rate of assimilation, “you lose your country.” Throughout his talk, Bates insinuated that the impending economic collapse will coincide with the religious Second Coming.
The Democrats are the party of big government, militant homosexual “rights and domination.” The Democrats are Socialists, from the party of Karl Marx, where the government owns and controls everything, including all means of distribution and production. “Liberals hate property rights.” Bates drew numerous parallels to the Soviet Union, where people had to wait in long lines for everything. That’s what the Democrats would bring us, he urged.
He warned that you can’t overlook the Republicans just because are imperfect. He understands that “Jesus Christ is not on the ballot.” If you hurt the Republicans, “you hurt yourself.” “Dingy Harry Reid “is corrupt and Nancy Pelosi is “a disaster.” Whenever you have a strong economy, you’ve got limited government. “It’s that simple.” Are there any litmus test for politicians? Absolutely. Don’t vote for anybody who believes in any right to abortion. “Nothing tells you more about politicians that sanctity of life. If they don’t get this right, they get nothing right.”
What else did he think about some the candidates? There was no holding back. Hillary Clinton shouldn’t be president because God has a natural order for things. Bates paused to caution the audience, “I’m not a chauvinist.” Then he forged on: “God is the head of man and man is the head of women. A two-headed family is a freak.” He offered this evidence of his position: Indonesia is struggling because it is a matriarchy. To allow women to run the country is to violate God’s order. God says there should not be a woman president. It is as aberrant as “letting children run a household.”
According to Bates, “Barack Hussein Obama” (he repeated this full name several times) is a radical muslim who was educated in a radical muslim school. His Church is full of people who, according to Bates, hate white people. [For those who are concerned about Obama based on Bates’ outrageous claims, check out this and this].
Are there some good Republican candidates? You bet, according to Bates. For instance, Tom Tancredo got it right when he recently got tough with Muslims. Bates described it like this: “if you use a nuclear device in the United States, then we will use a nuke to take out Mecca and Medina . . . [applause] . . . Brutal force is the only thing these birds understand.” Upon hearing and seeing this, I was stunned. Though I tried, I couldn’t recall the particular verse of the Bible where Jesus said, “If someone shits on you, shit on them.”
But Bates wasn’t done with the Muslims. According to Bates, the goal of Islam is “world domination under sharia law.” There are three types of followers of Islam, according to Bates. Type 1 is a revolutionary who sets off bombs. These people are terrorists. The second type is an evolutionary follower, distributing propaganda and prolifically “breeding.” The third type is a westernized Muslim who probably hasn’t even read the Koran. Nonetheless, those westernized Muslims will fall right in line, especially when those other Muslims threaten to cut off their heads or attack members of their families. The Koran “tells you “to kill and who to kill,” according to Bates. It tells you to kill Christians and Jews.
According to Bates, Sam Brownback of Kansas is misguided (too liberal) on immigration, perhaps because of his Catholic conversion. He doesn’t understand that we’ve simply got to keep those immigrants out.
What are some of the big issues of the upcoming election? National health insurance is a big issue. If we have national health insurance, it will “ruin the country. The country ends when we enact national health insurance.” What’s the evidence for this dramatic prediction? Tennessee has free government medical care, yet (according to Bates) nobody signs up for it. Therefore, there’s no need for national health insurance. Under national health insurance, Bill Clinton would have had to wait six weeks to get an appointment and six months to get his necessary surgery. National health insurance involves the “efficiency of the post office and the compassion of the IRS.” Furthermore, it will “drive the cost of health care way up.” National healthcare will bankrupt the country: “The government that can give you everything you want must, by definition, take everything you’ve got.”
Bates warns that people need to quit concerning themselves with the healthcare establishment. In fact, he’s suspicious of the healthcare system. People need to focus on preventing disease rather than treating it. They need a laugh more. “Laughter is better medicine.” People would “rather be victims-our diseases are other people’s faults.” People need to take responsibility for their own good health, said Bates, who looks to be a few pounds overweight. It all starts “with what you put in your body.” Bates then spent a serious chunk of time touting the healthcare products displayed on the tables in the lobby.
Bates explained that churches will need to get more into the healthcare business, because they have more to offer than the healthcare establishment. Churches have the courage to “tell the bums that they are bums” (I wondered what the bum lobby would think of this statement.
We have too much Blue Cross and Blue Shield. We depend too much on man and not enough on God. We’ve replaced God on the throne with government on the throne. We look to Jehovah government instead of God.
Bates announced that if anyone gets sick, it’s that person’s own fault. There are plenty of things you can do so that you don’t get sick, according to Bates. You can take regular doses of that colloidal silver I first learned about from the handouts. He announced that colloidal silver kills all bacteria. Someone in the back of the room then announced “Amen!” Gee, Larry, I wondered. Are you sure you want to kill all the bacteria in your body, including the beneficial bacteria that reside in your gut? He marched on, undeterred. Bates claims that he puts silver in his milk to keep it from spoiling. It will never spoil as long as you put silver in your carton of milk. He urged the audience to buy the colloidal silver generating kit, so they can make their own colloidal silver. He warned the audience that the FDA does not want people to know about the amazing healing powers of silver. The FDA doesn’t want the competition—it would put some big pharmaceutical companies out of business. In fact, the FDA is about to try to outlaw the use of silver as a medicine. Modern pharmaceuticals are “witchcraft.”
What else can you do to stay healthy? If you’ve got cancer, make sure you consider getting vitamin C injections. These have been phenomenally successful, according to Bates. This new knowledge about the healing powers of vitamin C reminded him that the Bible predicted “God’s plan of healing.” This kind of “new important knowledge” is another sign of “the last days.” We need to be the “salt” (disinfectant of the evil people) and the “light” (spreading wisdom). Bates warned that many believers are going to have to do God’s work on their own because churches “have been corrupted by world government.”
What would you do if you’re laid-off in the impending economic collapse? You need to get a trade. You need to do something with your hands, such as plumbing or electrical work. “The time will come when you have to barter your skills for someone else’s skills.” The End Times are apparently not going to be pretty.
The last section of the presentation was an indictment of US monetary policy. Bates pointed out that the United States now has $25 trillion in domestic debt which must be serviced, whereas the M2 money supply is only $7 trillion. This sets the stage for the economic End Times. The government can either go into default work or print fake money to dilute real wealth. He warns that the U.S. is busy printing lots of fake money. That’s what the recent $300 billion injection of “new money” was. It was used to allegedly stabilize the stock market. He warns that it would take a 7.1% added payroll tax to service our current debt, an amount that would break the backs of most families. Bates sees a massive restructuring of the social security system forthcoming, including raised taxes and reduced benefits, as well as means tests.
What can we do about the impending economic collapse? One thing is that we can make sure that no one takes away our guns, said Bates.
There will be no total economic collapse until there is total gun control. The tyrants don’t want to deal with an armed populace. The enemies of liberty hate your guns. The Second Amendment protects the First Amendment.
Here’s what else you can do, according to Bates. Elect people who will build fences to keep out the immigrants. Hone your communications skills, because the upcoming wars will be wars of world views. According to the Bible, “when you see the enemy, you’ll need to warn the city.”
As far as protecting your assets, Bates gives this advice: Stay away from “Loanership” assets, such as Money Market funds, T-bills and CD’s. They are “pieces of paper: IOU’s. Beware of real estate, in this age when the government is taxing it heavily and abusing eminent domain. Instead, load up on precious metals, such as gold and silver coins. This is especially important, given that the U.S. has long been off the gold standard, which has invited the dollar’s slide versus most currencies. He claims that you should not get gold or silver bullion because federal law gives the government the right to confiscate these in times of economic emergency.
Who’s going to buy your precious metal coins in the time of economic collapse? Bates is convincing to me when he answers that question with another question: “Who is going to buy your paper dollars?” He characterizes gold and silver as “money.” Everything else is only “credit.”
So Bates’ program includes both saving and eating silver! Where are you going to get all of those precious metals? From a reputable company like FAMC, of course. Bates tells you to buy precious coins and his company is happy to sell them to you. He told the crowd that precious metal coins are “real money” and that they will be exchangeable until the absolute end of time. Didn’t the Bible say that people will throw their gold and silver into the street? Absolutely, says Bates. But that will be toward the end, when we’ll see a “large scale transfer of wealth from the wicked to the righteous.” It’s all in the Bible, according to Bates. Up until those End Times, then, rely on precious metals, says Bates, citing Ezekiel 7:19 (“Precious metals very valuable until the time that God’s wrath is poured out”) and Haggai 2:6-9 (End time transfer of wealth using precious metals”).
Bates is not embarrassed about having money. “God doesn’t mind if you have nice things.” You should use and enjoy your money, he stresses. Have as much of it as you need, even if you use it to buy expensive houses, cars and vacations. No problem. It’s only the “love of money” that is the root of all evil. His literature cites Proverbs 28:20 (“Eager to get rich; will not go unpunished”), Ecclesiastes 2:26 (“One who pleases Him receives wealth”) and Genesis 2:11-12 (“God put gold in the earth for a reason”).
—
It’s hard to know how to sum up this Perilous Times Conference. The lessons taught by Bates are laced with radical conservative values, that is true. His characterizations of both Republicans and Democrats are cartoonish. His xenophobia and racism (especially toward women and people from the Middle East) are intense. His plan to capitalize upon the fears he drums up, both economic and religious, is predictable and obvious.
Bates has a ready and willing audience, because his targets are big and fat. Anyone with energy and creativity can vigorously hack away at pharmaceutical companies, drug companies, bankers, politicians and bureaucrats. If you can convince your audience that it might lose much of what it has worked for, you could readily stir up their deep fears about out-groups such as gays, women, atheists and immigrants.
Bates is playing a game that is played by many people who have some legitimate credentials. During the final portion of this conference Bates sometimes sounded like someone who was giving some reasonable economic advice based on sophisticated training. He sometimes spoke as person who relied on his training and experience in economics and banking. I am not an economist or a banker, and I have not read nearly enough to know the extent to which Bates is giving decent economic advice, though what I have read about United States fiscal policy also concerns me greatly. I’ve seen similar admonitions regarding the United States fiscal policy on “liberal” shows such as Bill Moyers. I think it is this part of the show that gives Bates the foot in the door with his audience.
Nonetheless, it is a standard trick to parlay one’s legitimate credentials far beyond the realm of one’s expertise. When Bates talks with ultra-assurance of the alleged Second Coming of Christ or when he touts the medical quackery he is so happy to peddle, he looks both naïve and devious. Shame on his audience members, though, if they really step up to buy that little bottle of fuel additive that will allegedly make their humongous SUVs get 50% better gas mileage. Shame on the people who think that the FDA is trying to outlaw silver potions because drinkable silver is so incredibly good that it would put pharmaceutical companies out of business. Shame on people who trust people who sell snake oil.
I couldn’t help but conclude that there is much in common among the sorts of people that listen to Bates and the sorts of people with whom I more commonly associate. We are all worried about our corrupt government, our poisoned food and water, our shortsighted fiscal policies, our many failing schools, our own deaths, about numerous people illegally pouring over our borders, about the many people who are addicted to drugs and alcohol and about a media with an agenda secretly dictated by those who hold disproportionate power. Many Believers and non-Believers are downright suspicious of organized religions. We differ profoundly, however, in the ways in which we would address these threats. What Bates offers is a bomb-shelter mentality. He relentlessly warns his audience of the need to hunker down and protect one’s own and let everyone else be damned.
As I left Perilous Times Conference, I wondered whether it would be an impossible task to convince the people in that audience to put down their Bibles and roll up their sleeves when they discuss politics. I wondered whether these people would ever be willing to open their minds to diverse ideas from people who might look and act differently than they do. I wondered whether Bates’ fans would ever be willing to look at their own cherished ideas as skeptically as they look at the ideas of others. I wondered whether they would ever be capable of pretending, even for a moment, that they were not under attack by all of those people of the world who they don’t know well. I wondered whether they could ever be convinced to consider that strangers are, for the most part, people with hopes, dreams and fears much like their own.
After mega-doses of Larry Bates, is it even possible for people to consider that there is a vast commonality all people share and that this could really be a starting point for a functional world view, one that is not based on paranoia?
Lonnie writes:—"Any one who does not beleive in the Holy Bible is the one who needs it the most."
And those who make such claims are likely those who have read as little of it as they can get away with.
I had already profiled you before I read "about the author" it's unfortunate that our colleges have been taken over by the Marxists.
It is so hard for me to understand how some people can get so detached from reality by prescribing to the ideology of these destructive hippies from the sixties who have been corrupting our kids for decades in the colleges.
The truth will set you free!!
But us brainwashed ivory tower commie types prefer knowledge and understanding to "truth". Ignorance may be bliss, but we wouldn't know.
It is sad that you do not know the Lord or you would understand what Dr Bates is teaching, i will Pray that your eyes will be opened to see the truth, all that you wrote is just what you think and you should keep that to your-self and let other people deceide for them-selves, my God be with you so that you and your family come to .know God before it is to late
Dear Mr Bates,
I ordered your book and the DVDs. Good job.
I rearch the USDA the Farmers Home Ad(Fmha). When I was Six years old and agent of Fmha took our farm for his self. In 1996 some tipped me off about the ugly that was going on there. I searched and found a land option filed in the RMC office on my parents land.
Fmha filed his option to his self. No been
signed at all by my parents. No payment was due, Agent omitted to this fact. The OIG at the USDA is covering this up. I have pulled records from the Federal Court and found that the oig and the US attorneys and the judge on this one case. Their all in this togather. I have others cases too. Their bad too. I look up to see who got the American farm land. Its the good old boys. I need your help on this. I will tell you what I know.I have 14 years in this, and it took me 35 years to catch them. But I have them now.You would no believe what I have been thru. God spoke to my mother at this time and told her to wait. She is still waiting.
My Email address is [omitted]
I know why the five dollar bill is on your book.You and I know the truth.I want to tell the whole story on this,I have lived with this for 48 years now. I have a file at the USDA. They came in and took my lively away from me amost 4 years ago. My bussiness after 18 years and my home to stop me. I know with God all things are possible.
Thank you for your time,
Beryl Kay Hilton
[address omitted]
Larry Bates preys on people's fears and his company First American Monetary Consultants Inc.(FAMC) does not deliver as promised to many of the naive clients who are buying gold from the company he and his sons are operating. Here is a link to an article that everyone should read about this man: http://unreportedworldnews.com/?p=223
If you know seniors (or others) who may be considering this… please let them know that they must be careful.
I, for one, will not every buy one of this man's books or tapes as he is obviously not the Christian he claims to be.
Janet,
Live and learn. There are many people who claim Christian values and beliefs only as a way of gaining the trust of pepople they eventually exploit. I see a lot of the in the ultra conservative media and in the right-wing pundits.
History has revealed, time after time, when religion. politics, and finance are combined, the corrupting influence of money and political power is stronger than the faith and trust of the congregation.
In other words, when the church becomes political, the result is not a moral political process, but a corrupt church.
NIklaus, I do agree. Unfortunately, so many seniors were hurt financially by the economic downturn. We must become Guardians of the Elderly – Information is power and if I can save one senior from being victimized, as my uncle and aunt were … then I will be very happy.
In my opinion, this is simply legalized greed and manipulation of a most vulnerable demographic. And it is people like Dr. Larry Bates who are the very core of causing our country's current "Grim Economic Condition"! This man has zero conscience.
Hi Erich, you might just put me in the same bracket you have put Christians, but I'll try to make my point anyway. You went to the conference with the same attitude you see in the man you describe, Larry Bates. You had no intention to find any "good" in his talk.
I am a Christ centred Christian, and although I don't spend all my days thinking about the "End Times" even when I wasn't a Christian I always suspected something was wrong in the system. Lets say that nothing you heard is true, how come this world is going terribly wrong, after all the "efforts" by Governments to better it? Why people (we, me included) are the way they are? I tell you my opinion: It's because we don't see enough (or totally) of what's round the corner.
The question is, do you want to hear any other "truth" apart from the one you have created in your own mind? I don't think so, but if you ever will want to give the try, ask Jesus direct. After all it is Jesus return that we are talking about!!
Love Ester
Ester: Have you read any of the other posts at this site? Do you understand that I think our economic system is massively dysfunctional? You don't need to believe in supernatural beings to come to this conclusion. And you are correct in your assumption that I don't believe in supernatural beings.
Ester,
Once upon a time I was a fervant, firy-eyed faithful follower of Jesus. I grew out of it. I asked Jesus repeatedly, many questions, and never once did I get an answer from that source. I didn't get answers till I started looking elsewhere, on my own, and found out that…
The world is screwed up because so many people leave important thinking to others who may not have our best interests in mind. But even if they do, everyone has a different idea about what's right that getting through the roadblocks we put in each other's way is 90% of the effort. So it's no wonder things move slowly.
For what it's worth, despite the doom and gloom, I think we're living in one of the coolest, most dynamic, wonderful periods in history. Just the fact that we can have a conversation like this, in this manner, is amazing.
And Jesus had nothing to do with it.
Naturally, this will mean very little to the utterly convinced. But consider that your attitude toward the nonbeliever is much the same—human effort has nothing to do with anything; it's all Jesus.
One of us is in error. The evidence suggests strongly that it isn't me.
Erich, you and I are probably polar opposites on lots of issues, particularly religion, but I do agree with you that there's quite a bit wrong with the state of our society today. You make some excellent observations about Bates and his presentation and you do it in a way that's calm, measured, and mostly respectful. Thanks for not ranting about "another loony, Bible-thumping snake oil peddler." I won't try to refute all you said and I certainly won't defend Dr. Bates. I've heard his show perhaps 5 or 6 times in the past few years and much of what he says I don't agree with. He is one of many Christians today who are obsessed with the "end times." And he misquotes or misunderstands many parts of the bible. The end times may come tomorrow or it may be another 1000 years-
"no man knows the hour…" However, that doesn't mean that he's wrong about everything. He's just a salesman with something to sell and I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say that he truly believes the things he says. With that in mind, I'd like to say to you (with all due respect to Bates) that he is NOT representative of the majority of Christians. Most of us do share many common beliefs such as Christ's divinity, salvation by faith, the resurrection, etc. But, we put our faith in Jesus not because we're afraid the world will end tomorrow, but because we see our own need to have forgiveness of sins and hope for the future. Christ offers that forgiveness and that hope. I became a Christian in my mid 30s and it was not a result of some emotional whirlwind at a church meeting- in fact it wasn't even at a church. I, like many believers, found that I had no answers for lifes big questions, let alone my own personal turmoil. I studied the Koran, Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price, Bhagavad Gita, Catholicism, Bhuddism, Scientology, and enough philosophy to warp my brain. No, I'm not an expert on any of this, but it was more than a cursory glance at the various beliefs of the world- I wanted ANSWERS. My questions were personal: I had a good life, good job, great family, so why was I still so empty inside? Why was I afraid of death? And what, if anything, comes after that? Also my questions were the big 3 of philosophy:
Where did we come from? Where are we going? Why are we here? I found that the Christian Bible answered all those questions in a way that nothing else did. And I didn't have to abandon rationality or objective reasoning in order to believe. No, it's not all scientifically provable, but neither is it all blind faith. I know I'm not going to convert you with my feeble attempt here, but I would encourage you to consider that the Bible may have some answers to the problems with our society today and, just possibly, to the questions you may have of your own life and future. If you haven't read it yet, I'd recommend The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel. It's a pretty fair examination of the Bible's accuracy and authenticity. In conclusion,
you're (mostly) wrong in your assessment of the Bible and (mostly)right in your criticism of Bates. For me, it's more a question of his motives. If he really is just using Christianity to sell his wares then he's to be condemned. If he's just misguided in his understanding then he's to be pittied and hopefully corrected by other believers. Anyway, thanks for the article you've written on him and for letting me put in my 2 cents worth.
First of all, Larry Bates is not a "Dr". Secondly, he is not a Christian in any sense of the Biblical meaning, he is in fact, a 32nd degree Mason. Buyer beware !
Oh my! That really makes him dangerous! You know, I heard Masons carry on secret rituals in which virgins are deflowered and children are eaten! Where's the Holy Inquisition when you need them? (Oh, yeah—buggering choir boys. Never mind.)
For all of you that are on board with Dr. Bates, understand that I have researched many websites and read through third party biographies as well as his own on the IRNUSA's website, which I feel quite certain he reviewed prior to it being put out to the public, I have yet to see where any educational accomplishments qualify him for the title of Dr.-and I could really give a fat lab rats behind if you can prove to me that he does- Google him and read all of the other multitude of websites AND comments that are out there, and you will also find that he has been royally screwing people for years. Furthermore, for him to declare himself to be a Christian and write and say the things that he does is not only ignorant, but also highly hypocritical. I am by no means an expert on the Bible, but I have read many verses that would indicate to me that he has a special spot reserved in hell very close to Satan, for you simply cannot treat people the way he does! Finally, if you do as I have asked and research as many websites as you can, you will find that he is an extreme right wing Republican and that's okay with me, for I vote the candidate, not the party.
I don't care if he's been a state representative re-elected a dozen times, a (unsuccessful)candidate for congress, was CEO of dozens banks, is a published author of all the best selling books in the world, has taught school at the university or any other level, a very successful and even proclaimed (self?) genius economist or runs the WHITE HOUSE. He's a hypocrite and not following the word of GOD, therefore not a TRUE Christian. Bates is a predator that prays on CHRISTIAN people, again, many of whom are elderly widows or widowers. And bullbutter about saying that God does not mind if a Christian gets rich, rich and richer. GOD says the rich should take care of those less fortunate with his riches. My goodness, he's close to Jim Baker! What does that tell you? My analysis is that he's hell bound with an express ticket. Who is any man to tell anyone that the end of the world is near? God doesn't promise tomorrow, but he loves us and he will make that decision when it's time. He doesn't like for man to assume or predict that, either. People like Bates have no business indicating that they are the only ones interpreting the Bible's word, only to make money off of it! Have you seen any indication of the mark of the beast yet? Seven headed deamons? Angels? NO and not even close. THERE IS STILL A LOT OF GOOD IN THIS WORLD and we can pray and make it better, for God hears our prayers and responds with grace and mercy! Besides, get yourself right with the One that created us from His own image and you don't have to worry when that day arrives. You don't have to buy gold and silver and be rich or pay anything to get into heaven: simply believe, repent and do your best to live a Godly life. And ya ain't takin' nothin with ya when ya go! From what I have read from others' comments, and there are PLENTY of negative outnumbering the good, Bates' message is to exchange paper money for precious metals because that is all that is going to be able to be used in the end times. Nowhere have I read others state that he has preached, encouraged or even uttered a word about salvation or repentance in his seminars. Also from what I have read in the Bible (i.e.the word and teachings of God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit) the Lord stated that people will throw their gold and silver in the streets when the end of the end arrives. Simply put, Bates is a hypocritical and pathological liar. Better carry ya a cooler of ice water around, Larry, cuz the Bible tells me that come your judgment day, it's gonna get a smidge warm for you! Y'all research and make your own decisions as you wish. But don't just read up on Larry Bates now. Be fair and at least take a glance at the Good Book, too. You'll see.
Sorry, a lot of stupid thinking. Take a look at the demographics. Peak spending is 45 – 55: the mass of baby boomers finish this year: 2010. Who is going to do all the buying? There a direct, statistical parallel between a 5 year age group and the Dow, which means it is headed south. Gold has always been a refuge. The 4th Turning by Neil Howe, the Gray Dawn by Peter Peterson, tell what is coming. No Bible references; simple financial facts.
Colleges promote stupidity. A group of people who cannot manage their money, but want to tell you how to do it. What a bunch of hypocrites;same with Government employees.
Every promoter goes overboard with enthusiasm: Bates is no exception. He has some good ideas. Does he have the credentials? That must be proven. If not, then take him lightly.
He is drawing attention to these massive problems, which is good. You better read Brooks Adams, Oswald Spengler, and understand that the Bible is about good and bad government.
No one can predict exactly when and exactly what will happen. But, if we study past history we can get closer than guessing.
This a perfect recap of the Larry Bates Traveling Circus I witnessed last night.
"Jews love money" -Dr. Larry Bates
If you are going to one of his talk to obtain some decent financial information, fine. But otherwise, I'd avoid this horsesh*t like the plague.
IRN/USA Radio news?
The mantra of the repro-Bates family, i.e. Dr. (Apparently honorary since it is nowhere to be found) Larry Bates and his son, Chuck Bates have quite the background in the field of broadcast news. (NOT)
Dr. Larry Bates is a veteran newsman, (sic) an economist [PhD in Agricultural Economics supposedly) and best-selling author. (Says who – Larry says!).
A former Legislator in the Blanton era in Tennessee back in the 1970's and Bank CEO, Dr. Bates is a (nationally recognized) authority on geopolitical systems, the economy and their impact on people’s lives. (OK here we go)
Chuck Bates, also an economist,(not really – He just knows how to sell gold and silver)(No degree that is known of, except he IS a Bible school graduate). Chuck is Executive Vice President and News Director for IRN/USA Radio News. (And got his start in broadcasting working for dad, and has never done a news shift.) He previously served as an assistant in the office of Political Affairs in the White House. (Dad got him the job when he was in Tennessee politics.)
Great source of info here: http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/08/12/larry…
OR
When did he become a Doctor/PhD?
Is it an honorary degree? Nothing shows up in any search, anywhere.
Larry Bates Bio
Bates, Larry (D)
(believed to be a old former address – Glenwood Drive, Martin, Tenn.)Representing House District 77. Born August 18, 1944. Married; Baptist; Pres., Bates Insurance Agency; Chairman of the Board and Chief Executive Officer Reelfoot Bank; Union City; B.S. University of Tennessee at Martin; Pres. Student Body UTM, two yrs., Pres. UT General Alumni Assoc.; Masonic Lodge, Scottish Rite, Al Chymia Temple, Alpha Gama Rho Fraternity, Kiwanis, Tenn. Banker’s Assoc.. Tenn. Nat’l Assoc. of Life U-w, American Banker’s Assoc., Who’s Who in America; Who’s Who in the South; Outstanding Young Men of America; Who’s Who in American Colleges and Universities; Who’s Who in Community Service. Member 87th, 88th and 89th General Assemblies
Source: Tennessee Blue Book
By Tennessee Dept. of State
Published by Secretary of State, 1890
Item notes: 1975-76
Original from the University of California
Digitized Apr 2, 2007
http://books.google.com/books?id=KI0uAAAAIAAJ&…
The ads are calls PI's. (That's a percentage for product sales) i.e., no pay IF no sale) and low rates for those commercials. And those MLM products are for the Bates coffers, from Colloidal Silver, Stem Cell pills, health and nutritional products etc., that give then quite a hefty cash flow.
Then there are the books and tapes that sell for a hefty fee, the Economic newsletter presenting convincing information that the call to action is to call the toll free number of FAMC, First American Monetary Consultants, Inc., (the primary arm of the economic and political consulting and newsletter, with editorial & corporate headquarters in Fort Collins, Colo., and additional offices in Columbia, Mo., and El Paso, Texas,
http://www.famcinc.com/pdf/decnfeb01.pdf
FAMC also has a publishing division, which distributes its Monetary & Economic Review and sells educational books, tapes, DVDs and CDs.
BUT the FAMC side of the organization, devoid of Securities and Exchange Commission and Federal Communications Commission regulation because it is a satellite delivered service, advising those who want to protect themselves from "Economic Disorder and the massive transfer of wealth" to buy GOLD, Silver and coins that will "only go up in value' as a hedge against the coming wipeout of the dollar.
Some hefty sums have come in as buyers are told of 30-45 day delivery dates that have been known to drag out.
The news is just a vehicle to sell the books, tapes and financial services and service the network for the lecture and seminars coming to a city near you. The $500,000 satellite GPS full blown IRN mobile newsroom is Larry Bates personal luxury hotel on wheel as he travels the south and western parts of the US on his lecture circuit.
The news is pre-recorded and played hourly from a computer and an alleged "un-spun" to the degree of the anchor on duty and also depends on the "non-rip and read” take on what is really happening and not what the liberal media is dishing out. At least that is the mission statement!
With limited news sources, bare bones staff and time restrictions, news research is non-existent; the wires are limited via Associated Press and Metro Networks. The job is a 'get 'er done' on time thing!
When the family of the late founder of the USA Radio network was drowning in red ink they approached the Bates family and decided to merge. IRN absorbed the 2000+ stations who took the USA Radio newscasts and since yes some are religious, many more are not; the content is just mainstream simple basic news as seen through the eyes of the reporter on duty.
Just listening long enough with reveal how the content can change depending on who is on duty.
No on duty editor or news director or assistant news director is on duty at an assignment desk monitoring for consistency and continuity.
News & Views is a live two-hour, issues-oriented and caller-intensive daily radio news magazine delivered from an economist’s point of view. (That says it all – Delivered from an economist’s point of view.
Larry’s point of view!
Erich and all other skeptics. My advice to you is to study your bible. It is the only book thas has proven prophecy. When God says it shall be done, you can bet it will be done. The bible also talks about people being "willfuly ignorant". People don't want to know the truth. Also "my people suffer for lack of knowledge". This information has been out there for 2,000 yrs. If you're driving down a highway and a road sign says "danger" road closed 2 miles ahead, are you going to keep going? In the old testament, God always sent a prophet to warn the people to give them time to repent. The door to Noah's ark door was open three days before it was shut for good, giving time for people to repent. I think time is running out. If you ever really become saved, you will realize that Larry Bates is right and you are wrong.
Samantha (and others who think like Samantha): What do you meant that "Larry Bates is right and you are wrong?" I reported on what Larry Bates actually said, and I provided quite a few photos of what I saw at his convention. Your threats of hell don't concern me at all. I am not motivated by promises of alleged supernatural rewards and threats. I think that we'd be better off working to fix some of the many problems of this world than threatening each other with alleged doom and gloom. It seems to me that Larry Bates is trying to scare people (and I do think that some of what he says about our economic dysfunction is accurate), but then to profit off of his fear-mongering.
Samantha writes:—"My advice to you is to study your bible. It is the only book thas has proven prophecy."
I doubt this will be answered, as folks such as you tend not to return to the site of their droppings. But I have the same question every time.
Name me one prophecy from the Bible that has come true. Just one.
Asserting something is true usually comes with some proof, and I've yet to see any other than vague re-engineerings of supposed events that may or may not (depending which translation of what verse) correspond sorta kinda with a biblical prophecy.
Noah's ark is myth. The genetic diversity of the planet puts the lie to it.
So what else ya got?
Erich, again study your bible, not my words of the threat of hell, God's words. Larry Bates quotes the bible accurately. Jesus is the fix to our country's problems. Our country was founded on Judeo-Chrisitan values. Read the quotes of our founding fathers. You don't have to accept it. That is what is great about free will. We choose where we will spend eternity.
Samantha would rather threaten people with hell then engage in a meaningful discussion. And she smugly continues to work hard to convince herself that out of all of the world's supernatural belief systems, only her beliefs are correct. Too bad for all of those Hindus and Buddhists. In other words, two-thirds of the world's people are dead wrong and hell-bound. http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.h…
Samantha writes:—"Our country was founded on Judeo-Chrisitan values. Read the quotes of our founding fathers."
Another baseless claim. Have you read the Founding Fathers?
God is nowhere mentioned in the Constitution. A "Creator" is mentioned in the Declaration of Independence, but is not specified as to denomination or persuasion.
But let's see…
James Madison: "During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."
Oh, and this is a good one, the original wording of the 1st Amendment, also by James Madison: "The civil rights of none shall be abridged on account of religious belief or worship, nor shall any national religion be established, nor shall the full and equal rights of conscience be in any manner, or on any pretence, infringed."
This is one of my favorites, and is fairly unequivocal. The Treaty of Tripoli, negotiated under Washington, signed by Adams: "As the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries." Please not that first line—AS THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATE OF AMERICA IS NOT IN ANY SENSE SOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION.
Benjamin Franklin: "Lighthouses are more helpful than churches."
Ethan Allen: "I have generally been denominated a Deist, the reality of which I never disputed, being conscious I am no Christian, except mere infant baptism makes me one; and as to being a Deist, I know not strictly speaking, whether I am one or not."
Finally, John Adams again: "This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it."
So I don't know where anyone gets this notion that this country was founded on Judeo-Christians principles other than by wishful thinking. While most of the Founders believed in a god of some kind, they almost uniformly rejected the artifice known as christianity, considering it a pack of fairy tales cobbled together for the purpose of suppression.
This is the last comment I will make. I stumbled across this site trying to find Larry Bate's new book. If I am seeing the date of the article correctly, it was written in 2007. Larry Bates wrote his first book in 1994, which I read. We are even closer to what he was talking about in the first book. Trillions in debt. There is no way out except to get on our knees and pray. The bible is proven prophecy. no other book can claim that. Not book of Mormon, Jehovah's witness, etc. Someone asked for proof. What about the rise and fall of the different empires. What about Isaiah speaking about the coming of Jesus and dying on the cross, 2,000 yrs before crucification was invented. It's really quite fascinating when you get into studying it, as well as a great history book. Jesus said, broad is the way which leadeth to destruction and there be many who travel it, narrow is the way which leadeth unto life and there be few that find it. This should answer your question of whether 2/3 of the world is in the wrong direction. It's been that way all throughout history. Only 8 people were spared from the flood. Are they hell-bound? Jesus said I am the way the truth and the life, no man come to the father but by me. Only God knows a person's heart.
Samantha. You seem to be a broken record. Follow the Bible as Samantha is interpreting it, or else you will go to hell, and there is a financial crisis. I got it. I understand your position.
Christopher Columbus: "O Lord, Almighty and everlasting God, by Thy Word Thou hast created the heaven, and the earth, and the sea; blessed and glorified be Thy name, and praised be Thy Majesty, which hath designed to use us, Thy humble servants, that Thy holy Name may be proclaimed in this second part of the earth".
Abraham Lincoln: "I have been driven many times upon my knees by the overwhelming conviction that I had nowhere else to go. My own wisdom, and that of all about me, seemed insufficient for that day".
Ben Franklin: "in the beginning of the contest with Great Britain, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayers in this room for divine protection. Our prayers were heard, and they were graciously answered… I have lived a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth: "that God governs the affairs of man." And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid? 1787
Thomas Jefferson: "the Bible is the cornerstone of liberty".
Ulysses S. Grant: "Hold fast to the Bible as the sheet anchor of your liberties; write its precepts on your heart and practice them in your lives. To the influence of this Book we are indebted for the progress made, and to this we must look as our guide in the future.
George Washington: "It is impossible rightly to govern the world without God and the Bible".
Andrew Jackson: the Bible is the rock on which our republic rests.
Too many more to list.
Rob: It's interesting that you didn't link to any reputable source, and further, that many of these men were well known to have held contrary views. Other problems exist too. See http://candst.tripod.com/tnppage/flawq.htm
Oh, my. I wonder why I bother sometimes, but it gives me practice in reference. Where to begin?
Samantha doesn't pay attention. She writes:—"The bible is proven prophecy. no other book can claim that. Not book of Mormon, Jehovah’s witness, etc. Someone asked for proof. What about the rise and fall of the different empires. What about Isaiah speaking about the coming of Jesus and dying on the cross, 2,000 yrs before crucification was invented."
At least you gave examples.
Well, the rise and fall of empires predates Judaism, happens all the time, and for perfectly understandable reasons. There is nothing permanent about anything people do. Empires are big, complicated things and a lot can go wrong with them. It would take an illiterate moron to fail to predict that empires rise and fall. As Homer Simpson says, "Doh!"
As for crucifixion…2000 years? Really? The Greeks were crucifying people before Roman took them over. Isaiah (if indeed there was such a man) lived roughly between the 8th and 6th Centuries B.C.E. At best he might have said something a hundred years before crucifixion was invented, but more than likely he saw the Assyrians nailing criminals to trees or planks.
As for "predicting" Jesus…Isaiah 7:14. "Behold a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel."
First off, this is where the confusion sets in. The word used is "almah" which more precisely translates as "young woman." The specific Hebrew word for virgin is "bethulah" which was not used. Even so, this was nothing new. Isaiah came after the Egyptian myth of Horus was created, and Horus was born of a virgin, performed miracles (like walking on water and raising a dead guy named Lazaurs…yeah, Lazarus). Virgin births of demigods were everywhere at this time—half the Greek pantheon got kids on virgins.
Now, finally "Immanuel" famously means "God with us." The kids name, though, was Yeshua—Romanized as Jesus—not Immanuel. Immanuel is such a blanket appellation that anyone could be made to fill the bill.
So what else? Tribulations? There are ALWAYS tribulations.
But I love this: Samantha writes:—"Trillions in debt. There is no way out except to get on our knees and pray."
And what will that do, besides give a lot of people sore knees? Maybe it would be better to figure out how to keep wealthy people and corporations from spending our future before we have it from now on? Maybe it would be better to learn some economics before we abandon all reason and embrace superstition?
We understand perfectly well how we got in this position. Getting out of it and correcting the model by which we live can also be understood. We don't do it because we lack the will. Or maybe we have too many people thinking they're powerless and all they can do is pray.
Prophecies always come true, as long as they are vague enough and believers flexible enough in their definitions.
Many empires rose and fell in the historical 5,000 or so years before the Old Testament was first anthologized (c.600 B.C.E.). Probably many pre-historically before those. Predicting that any current or future empire will do the same is trivial: They all do.
I can't find any reference to crucifixion in Isaiah. Where is that? I only find that the coming prophet would be beat up, imprisoned, and stoned (crushed to death).
Isaiah the prophet was born in the 8th century B.C.E. Not thousands of years. Why can't Bible thumpers at least check their own references?