Once in a while, I tune into KJSL, a St. Louis Christian talk radio station. I do this as part of a conscious effort to make myself listen to people with views that are dramatically different from my own. Perhaps I will understand those views better if I take the time to listen more.
While I was driving last week, the station featured a show called “News and Views,” hosted by a man named “Dr. Larry Bates.” The host repeatedly painted the future of the US as bleak, thanks to irresponsible financial policies by the federal government. Because I have some sympathy with that general conclusion, I continued to listen. It turned out that Bates was predicting the imminent financial collapse of the United States. Although I doubted that conclusion, I continued to listen.
Bates then indicated that he is also a big proponent of religious “End Times.” In short, he believes that Jesus will soon be returning to Earth in order to sort things out. I have no sympathy for this religious view. In fact, I find End Times beliefs to be irresponsible and destructive for the numerous reasons. For example, I do not hold the Bible to be inerrant. Based on my study of the Bible, although it offers some good stories and some reasonable moral instruction, it is also rife with bad advice, contradictions and senseless violence.
“Dr. Larry Bates” wears many hats. He claims to be an economist, publisher, editor, former member of the Tennessee House of Representatives, former bank CEO and a “nationally recognized expert on political systems and the Federal Reserve.” Bates is also the President of First American Monetary Consultants, Inc. (FAMC), an organization that allegedly does “economic and market forecasting, in addition to offering a wide variety of other End Times services. “News and Views” is a syndicated radio show, available dozens of radio stations across the U.S. Larry Bates is thus well known in some circles.
After listening to Bates for only a few minutes, I learned that the United States needs to immediately and mercilessly bomb Iran because of what “those people” have done to “support terrorism.” I also learned that we need to support Israel without question, based upon what the Bible says. I persevered to the end of the show, saddened by and frustrated with the flimsy manner in which Bates attempted to support his conclusions.
At the end of the show, it was announced that Bates was going to be featured at a half-day conference in St. Louis, I took the bait. I thought it would be interesting to better understand the basis for the views of End Times (both economic End Times and religious End Times) proponents. The conference was called “Perilous Times: Significant End Time Events.” I paid $20 and showed up at the Crystal Ballroom of the Renaissance St. Louis Grand and Suites Hotel in downtown St. Louis. Here’s my ticket:
At the registration desk, I received a folder full of information. One of the pamphlets advised me that legalized gay marriage is a major obstacle to democracy:
When the US Supreme Court ruled in Lawrence v. Texas last year that sodomy is a constitutional ‘right,’ the director of the lambda legal fund-a radical homosexual-agenda of pressure group-gleefully explained that this marks the beginning of the end to traditional marriage.
Another pamphlet advised that the United States is officially a Judeo-Christian nation. It quoted William Penn: “Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.” This pamphlet, printed by FAMC, “proves” that the United States is a Christian nation based upon the fact that the Constitutions of many of the states mention “God,” or “the Creator.” As though non-Christian religions don’t believe in a “God” or a “Creator.”
There were numerous products displayed and advertised at the conference. These products are the sorts of things you’ll need to have if you are going to be prepared for the economic and religious End Times. If you want to prevent cancer, you need to load up on Glutathione. The pamphlet says “your life depends on Glutathione.” To buy it, contact FAMC, according to the pamphlet.
What if you just want to make sure that you have access to “the most universal antibiotic” known to man, colloidal silver? It’s a “tasteless, odorless, non-toxic, purer, natural substance consisting of submicroscopic clusters of silver particles suspended by a tiny electric charge placed on each particle.” According to the pamphlet, you drink it. It kills all those pesky pathogens and protects all your good cells. According to the pamphlet, it is useful for treating allergies, boils, herpes, stomach flu, lime disease, gonorrhea, bladder irritations and chickenpox. The list goes on and on. Colloidal silver can be used vaginally, anally or dropped into the eyes.” You can even make your own colloidal silver out of silver wire, using the $189 generator you can buy from FAMC.
Another pamphlet advised me of my right to participate in jury nullification whenever anyone is being prosecuted for a gun crime. That is because “corrupted, anti-gun prosecutors and judges are common.” This information is distributed by the Fully Informed Jury Association.
After the economic collapse, you’ll need to make better use of all that expensive gasoline that all of us are going to need. Therefore, make sure you buy the “Power Plus Mpg” additive. Using this Power Plus, you can save 25 to $.50 per gallon. During his talk (which I’ll discuss in detail further down), Larry Bates bragged that his 5 mpg SUV improved its mileage 50% (to 7.5 mpg) after he started using this Power Plus. Those attending the conference were even invited to sign up as Power Plus distributors.
Additional Pamphlets were available advising how to support efforts to find those “30,000 POWs [who] were known to be behind alive after WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Persian Gulf and War on Terror.” There was also a table full of conservative-message bumper stickers.
The nice old fellow minding that table offered me a chance to take any one of those bumper stickers for free. I really struggled to find anything that didn’t offend my politics (maybe I am a liberal). After searching for a full minute, I picked up Smoke – Choke – Stroke – Croak.
I wasn’t really at the conference to dwell on the End Times products, however. I was there to listen to “Dr. Larry Bates,” just like the 200 other people who attended. Although the crowd included a handful of young adults, most of those attending were in their 60s or 70s. As is often the case with groups of conservative Christians, this was an extremely polite and orderly group. People held doors for each other and took time to exchange pleasantries.
Dr. Larry Bates introduced himself and then introduced a local preacher who opened the meeting with a prayer. Almost everyone bowed their heads respectfully. Then it was time to offer a few door prizes. The winners had a choice of two books: The Coming Financial Wipeout or America’s Christian Heritage.
Then it was time for four-hours of lecture. Bates bemoaned the lack of pastors in the audience. He complained that too many church leaders were “eating the sheep rather than feeding the sheep.” He asked for a show of hands of those who believe that we were in the last days, and perhaps a third of the audience raised their hand. When he asked whether we were in the very last days, 15% raised their hands.
Bates informed the audience that their job was to “raise up wisdom.” This has to be done by taking back the media, he explained, although “Fox news is one of our best news channels.”
He explained that the next election is the most important one ever. It will be about “class warfare.” The election whether we’ll have less government and bigger government. It’s between monopolistic versus competitive capitalism. Although the Republicans are imperfect, according to a distressed Bates, the only real choice in this upcoming election is Republican. More on this further down.
The United States is under attack by economic and political elitists who want to keep the middle class trapped as pawns and serfs in this elitist version of a caste system. These are desperate times, because “There are only two countries in the entire world where the middle class runs the government or has the opportunity to run the government: the United States and Israel.”
The elitists are “One World Socialists” according to Bates. They want to level everyone out to make everyone equally poor, except for themselves. A repeated target of Bates was the Federal Reserve, which “only looks federal and has no reserves.” Bates could barely contain his scorn for the Federal Reserve, which, he repeatedly emphasized, was totally owned by private bankers.
Bates is highly suspicious of George W. Bush’s “New World order.” It is a conspiracy against the people of the United States, and it amounts to “one world socialism,” an attempt to make everyone poor except for an elite ruling class. He exhorted that the creation of the Federal Reserve was a conspiracy to rob the American middle class. The Federal Reserve is a “criminal syndicate.” According to Bates, the head of the Federal Reserve is more powerful than the president of the United States. In all earnestness, he told the crowd that the 1938 panic-provoking radio adaptation of “War of the Worlds” was not entertainment. It was a test by the government elite to see if the federal government could maintain control over the New World Order.
What are the elitists trying to do? They are trying to create a North American Union. They want to merge the United States, Mexico and Canada and to destroy the sovereignty of the United States. That’s why we have a lax immigration policy, he warned. What’s the solution? “Build a fence and keep them out.” If the rate of immigration exceeds your rate of assimilation, “you lose your country.” Throughout his talk, Bates insinuated that the impending economic collapse will coincide with the religious Second Coming.
The Democrats are the party of big government, militant homosexual “rights and domination.” The Democrats are Socialists, from the party of Karl Marx, where the government owns and controls everything, including all means of distribution and production. “Liberals hate property rights.” Bates drew numerous parallels to the Soviet Union, where people had to wait in long lines for everything. That’s what the Democrats would bring us, he urged.
He warned that you can’t overlook the Republicans just because are imperfect. He understands that “Jesus Christ is not on the ballot.” If you hurt the Republicans, “you hurt yourself.” “Dingy Harry Reid “is corrupt and Nancy Pelosi is “a disaster.” Whenever you have a strong economy, you’ve got limited government. “It’s that simple.” Are there any litmus test for politicians? Absolutely. Don’t vote for anybody who believes in any right to abortion. “Nothing tells you more about politicians that sanctity of life. If they don’t get this right, they get nothing right.”
What else did he think about some the candidates? There was no holding back. Hillary Clinton shouldn’t be president because God has a natural order for things. Bates paused to caution the audience, “I’m not a chauvinist.” Then he forged on: “God is the head of man and man is the head of women. A two-headed family is a freak.” He offered this evidence of his position: Indonesia is struggling because it is a matriarchy. To allow women to run the country is to violate God’s order. God says there should not be a woman president. It is as aberrant as “letting children run a household.”
According to Bates, “Barack Hussein Obama” (he repeated this full name several times) is a radical muslim who was educated in a radical muslim school. His Church is full of people who, according to Bates, hate white people. [For those who are concerned about Obama based on Bates’ outrageous claims, check out this and this].
Are there some good Republican candidates? You bet, according to Bates. For instance, Tom Tancredo got it right when he recently got tough with Muslims. Bates described it like this: “if you use a nuclear device in the United States, then we will use a nuke to take out Mecca and Medina . . . [applause] . . . Brutal force is the only thing these birds understand.” Upon hearing and seeing this, I was stunned. Though I tried, I couldn’t recall the particular verse of the Bible where Jesus said, “If someone shits on you, shit on them.”
But Bates wasn’t done with the Muslims. According to Bates, the goal of Islam is “world domination under sharia law.” There are three types of followers of Islam, according to Bates. Type 1 is a revolutionary who sets off bombs. These people are terrorists. The second type is an evolutionary follower, distributing propaganda and prolifically “breeding.” The third type is a westernized Muslim who probably hasn’t even read the Koran. Nonetheless, those westernized Muslims will fall right in line, especially when those other Muslims threaten to cut off their heads or attack members of their families. The Koran “tells you “to kill and who to kill,” according to Bates. It tells you to kill Christians and Jews.
According to Bates, Sam Brownback of Kansas is misguided (too liberal) on immigration, perhaps because of his Catholic conversion. He doesn’t understand that we’ve simply got to keep those immigrants out.
What are some of the big issues of the upcoming election? National health insurance is a big issue. If we have national health insurance, it will “ruin the country. The country ends when we enact national health insurance.” What’s the evidence for this dramatic prediction? Tennessee has free government medical care, yet (according to Bates) nobody signs up for it. Therefore, there’s no need for national health insurance. Under national health insurance, Bill Clinton would have had to wait six weeks to get an appointment and six months to get his necessary surgery. National health insurance involves the “efficiency of the post office and the compassion of the IRS.” Furthermore, it will “drive the cost of health care way up.” National healthcare will bankrupt the country: “The government that can give you everything you want must, by definition, take everything you’ve got.”
Bates warns that people need to quit concerning themselves with the healthcare establishment. In fact, he’s suspicious of the healthcare system. People need to focus on preventing disease rather than treating it. They need a laugh more. “Laughter is better medicine.” People would “rather be victims-our diseases are other people’s faults.” People need to take responsibility for their own good health, said Bates, who looks to be a few pounds overweight. It all starts “with what you put in your body.” Bates then spent a serious chunk of time touting the healthcare products displayed on the tables in the lobby.
Bates explained that churches will need to get more into the healthcare business, because they have more to offer than the healthcare establishment. Churches have the courage to “tell the bums that they are bums” (I wondered what the bum lobby would think of this statement.
We have too much Blue Cross and Blue Shield. We depend too much on man and not enough on God. We’ve replaced God on the throne with government on the throne. We look to Jehovah government instead of God.
Bates announced that if anyone gets sick, it’s that person’s own fault. There are plenty of things you can do so that you don’t get sick, according to Bates. You can take regular doses of that colloidal silver I first learned about from the handouts. He announced that colloidal silver kills all bacteria. Someone in the back of the room then announced “Amen!” Gee, Larry, I wondered. Are you sure you want to kill all the bacteria in your body, including the beneficial bacteria that reside in your gut? He marched on, undeterred. Bates claims that he puts silver in his milk to keep it from spoiling. It will never spoil as long as you put silver in your carton of milk. He urged the audience to buy the colloidal silver generating kit, so they can make their own colloidal silver. He warned the audience that the FDA does not want people to know about the amazing healing powers of silver. The FDA doesn’t want the competition—it would put some big pharmaceutical companies out of business. In fact, the FDA is about to try to outlaw the use of silver as a medicine. Modern pharmaceuticals are “witchcraft.”
What else can you do to stay healthy? If you’ve got cancer, make sure you consider getting vitamin C injections. These have been phenomenally successful, according to Bates. This new knowledge about the healing powers of vitamin C reminded him that the Bible predicted “God’s plan of healing.” This kind of “new important knowledge” is another sign of “the last days.” We need to be the “salt” (disinfectant of the evil people) and the “light” (spreading wisdom). Bates warned that many believers are going to have to do God’s work on their own because churches “have been corrupted by world government.”
What would you do if you’re laid-off in the impending economic collapse? You need to get a trade. You need to do something with your hands, such as plumbing or electrical work. “The time will come when you have to barter your skills for someone else’s skills.” The End Times are apparently not going to be pretty.
The last section of the presentation was an indictment of US monetary policy. Bates pointed out that the United States now has $25 trillion in domestic debt which must be serviced, whereas the M2 money supply is only $7 trillion. This sets the stage for the economic End Times. The government can either go into default work or print fake money to dilute real wealth. He warns that the U.S. is busy printing lots of fake money. That’s what the recent $300 billion injection of “new money” was. It was used to allegedly stabilize the stock market. He warns that it would take a 7.1% added payroll tax to service our current debt, an amount that would break the backs of most families. Bates sees a massive restructuring of the social security system forthcoming, including raised taxes and reduced benefits, as well as means tests.
What can we do about the impending economic collapse? One thing is that we can make sure that no one takes away our guns, said Bates.
There will be no total economic collapse until there is total gun control. The tyrants don’t want to deal with an armed populace. The enemies of liberty hate your guns. The Second Amendment protects the First Amendment.
Here’s what else you can do, according to Bates. Elect people who will build fences to keep out the immigrants. Hone your communications skills, because the upcoming wars will be wars of world views. According to the Bible, “when you see the enemy, you’ll need to warn the city.”
As far as protecting your assets, Bates gives this advice: Stay away from “Loanership” assets, such as Money Market funds, T-bills and CD’s. They are “pieces of paper: IOU’s. Beware of real estate, in this age when the government is taxing it heavily and abusing eminent domain. Instead, load up on precious metals, such as gold and silver coins. This is especially important, given that the U.S. has long been off the gold standard, which has invited the dollar’s slide versus most currencies. He claims that you should not get gold or silver bullion because federal law gives the government the right to confiscate these in times of economic emergency.
Who’s going to buy your precious metal coins in the time of economic collapse? Bates is convincing to me when he answers that question with another question: “Who is going to buy your paper dollars?” He characterizes gold and silver as “money.” Everything else is only “credit.”
So Bates’ program includes both saving and eating silver! Where are you going to get all of those precious metals? From a reputable company like FAMC, of course. Bates tells you to buy precious coins and his company is happy to sell them to you. He told the crowd that precious metal coins are “real money” and that they will be exchangeable until the absolute end of time. Didn’t the Bible say that people will throw their gold and silver into the street? Absolutely, says Bates. But that will be toward the end, when we’ll see a “large scale transfer of wealth from the wicked to the righteous.” It’s all in the Bible, according to Bates. Up until those End Times, then, rely on precious metals, says Bates, citing Ezekiel 7:19 (“Precious metals very valuable until the time that God’s wrath is poured out”) and Haggai 2:6-9 (End time transfer of wealth using precious metals”).
Bates is not embarrassed about having money. “God doesn’t mind if you have nice things.” You should use and enjoy your money, he stresses. Have as much of it as you need, even if you use it to buy expensive houses, cars and vacations. No problem. It’s only the “love of money” that is the root of all evil. His literature cites Proverbs 28:20 (“Eager to get rich; will not go unpunished”), Ecclesiastes 2:26 (“One who pleases Him receives wealth”) and Genesis 2:11-12 (“God put gold in the earth for a reason”).
—
It’s hard to know how to sum up this Perilous Times Conference. The lessons taught by Bates are laced with radical conservative values, that is true. His characterizations of both Republicans and Democrats are cartoonish. His xenophobia and racism (especially toward women and people from the Middle East) are intense. His plan to capitalize upon the fears he drums up, both economic and religious, is predictable and obvious.
Bates has a ready and willing audience, because his targets are big and fat. Anyone with energy and creativity can vigorously hack away at pharmaceutical companies, drug companies, bankers, politicians and bureaucrats. If you can convince your audience that it might lose much of what it has worked for, you could readily stir up their deep fears about out-groups such as gays, women, atheists and immigrants.
Bates is playing a game that is played by many people who have some legitimate credentials. During the final portion of this conference Bates sometimes sounded like someone who was giving some reasonable economic advice based on sophisticated training. He sometimes spoke as person who relied on his training and experience in economics and banking. I am not an economist or a banker, and I have not read nearly enough to know the extent to which Bates is giving decent economic advice, though what I have read about United States fiscal policy also concerns me greatly. I’ve seen similar admonitions regarding the United States fiscal policy on “liberal” shows such as Bill Moyers. I think it is this part of the show that gives Bates the foot in the door with his audience.
Nonetheless, it is a standard trick to parlay one’s legitimate credentials far beyond the realm of one’s expertise. When Bates talks with ultra-assurance of the alleged Second Coming of Christ or when he touts the medical quackery he is so happy to peddle, he looks both naïve and devious. Shame on his audience members, though, if they really step up to buy that little bottle of fuel additive that will allegedly make their humongous SUVs get 50% better gas mileage. Shame on the people who think that the FDA is trying to outlaw silver potions because drinkable silver is so incredibly good that it would put pharmaceutical companies out of business. Shame on people who trust people who sell snake oil.
I couldn’t help but conclude that there is much in common among the sorts of people that listen to Bates and the sorts of people with whom I more commonly associate. We are all worried about our corrupt government, our poisoned food and water, our shortsighted fiscal policies, our many failing schools, our own deaths, about numerous people illegally pouring over our borders, about the many people who are addicted to drugs and alcohol and about a media with an agenda secretly dictated by those who hold disproportionate power. Many Believers and non-Believers are downright suspicious of organized religions. We differ profoundly, however, in the ways in which we would address these threats. What Bates offers is a bomb-shelter mentality. He relentlessly warns his audience of the need to hunker down and protect one’s own and let everyone else be damned.
As I left Perilous Times Conference, I wondered whether it would be an impossible task to convince the people in that audience to put down their Bibles and roll up their sleeves when they discuss politics. I wondered whether these people would ever be willing to open their minds to diverse ideas from people who might look and act differently than they do. I wondered whether Bates’ fans would ever be willing to look at their own cherished ideas as skeptically as they look at the ideas of others. I wondered whether they would ever be capable of pretending, even for a moment, that they were not under attack by all of those people of the world who they don’t know well. I wondered whether they could ever be convinced to consider that strangers are, for the most part, people with hopes, dreams and fears much like their own.
After mega-doses of Larry Bates, is it even possible for people to consider that there is a vast commonality all people share and that this could really be a starting point for a functional world view, one that is not based on paranoia?
God give me paragraphs…
Frank,
I enjoyed your paragraphs, even if one was a bit long. Thanks for sharing from your heart.
For your humble consideration: When did he become a Doctor/Phd? Is it an An honorary degree?????
Larry Bates Bio
Bates, Larry (D)
Glenwood Drive, Martin, Tenn.
Representing House District 77. Born August 18, 1944. Married; Baptist; Pres., Bates Insurance Agency; Chairman of the Board and Chief Executive Officer Reelfoot Bank; Union City; B.S. University of Tennessee at Martin; Pres. Student Body UTM, two yrs., Pres. UT General Alumni Assoc.; Masonic Lodge, Scottish Rite, Al Chymia Temple, Alpha Gama Rho Fraternity, Kiwanis, Tenn. Banker's Assoc.. Tenn. Nat'l Assoc. of Life U-w, American Banker's Assoc., Who's Who in America; Who's Who in the South; Outstanding Young Men of America; Who's Who in American Colleges and Universities; Who's Who in Community Service. Member 87th, 88th and 89th General Assemblies
Source: Tennessee Blue Book
By Tennessee Dept. of State
Published by Secretary of State., 1890
Item notes: 1975-76
Original from the University of California
Digitized Apr 2, 2007
http://books.google.com/books?id=KI0uAAAAIAAJ&…
I think that while factually speaking, the writer's observations of an IRN conference (literature, etc) are correct, I think he comes away with a bit of a skewed view. I know Larry Bates extremely well. I do know he has extreme views, and I'm convinced that much of what he has to say especially on economic issues is fundamentally sound. All one has to do is observe the complete breakdown of our financial system within the last 6 months to know that Dr. Bates was 100% correct, and that he knew for YEARS that this was coming.
On religious matters, he is unwavering in his faith. One does not have to believe the same way…. Just because I chose to believe in Jesus and the Bible and Salvation, and that the Bible IS the innate word of God, doesn't mean that you or anyone else does… clearly the writer here does not. Salvation comes from God, for whom He chooses to give it to, and for he who wishes to receive it. If one rejects it… well, the penalty is written in scripture. And if you don't believe it, then you don't believe it. People are entitled to their own beliefs.
Where Dr. Bates and I part company is in the realm of politics. For years, I voted lock, stock and barrel with the Republicans, because I truly believed that Democrats were leading us straight to hell, morally and fiscally. After watching the systematic transfer of wealth from the poor and middle class to the richest of rich in this country, I became totally disillusioned with this grand idea of unbridled captialism. The free market is a great place for good, but it must be REGULATED. The GOP, especially under Bush, screamed for all the regulations to come off and look what happened. Enough already. Tax the rich appropriately, regulate large corporations sufficiently, ensure public scruitny and accountability and then perhaps the public trust will return. Enough of that.
As for President Obama… I remember watching the AP machine one day before Dr. Bates was about to go into the studio for News & Views… back when Obama was a Jr. Senator and someone on Fox News made a comment that he might be a contender for President in '08… Dr. Bates' comment has always stuck in my head. He just shook his head and said, "that man's crazy. He'll get us all killed…". Looking at Obama's initial economic solutions in his first week, and given Dr. Bates' record of being absolutely correct on all counts in the economic forecasting world, he might be right.
Well Erich Vieth, Dr Bates doesn't sound so crazy now 2/5/9 does he? Are you convinced yet of the economic collapse of the US?
I recently saw Larry Bates on God TV. Odd.. God TV. He is absolutely correct on his economic predictions as well as his knowledge on the New World Order and their ultimate plan. Where he goes wrong is falling into the "divide and conquer" trap. It's not Christians v. Muslims.. It's literally US (the slaves) v. THEM (the NWO/masters)
Unfortuntely for you sir…YOUR bias regarding the Bible has skewed your analysis and prejudice towards this man. I for one cannot accept your premise because of these…again because your thinking is skewed and biased.
Dr. J. C.
California
Why does it seem that the political wingnuts from Tennessee are from the western end of the state? Must be something in the water.
A former TN assembly member from Memphis claimed he had "immunity" as a lawmaker. That guy was known for shooting at other drivers on the interstate around Nashville. He kept getting re-elected until he was arrested and found guilty of accepting bribes aand selling state contracts.
And here we have Larry Bates, former insurance agent, and banker, preaching hate politics from the pulpit in the name of Jesus ( I understand that Jesus was all about love and forgiveness, so where does the hate originate?).
Yeah, it's gotta be something in the water.
Mr Erich Vieth: and others,
<>
Because you don't believe in Jesus, do you think it is your right to Demonize every Christian opinion as extremist ? I bet you love the Islamo-fascists, the liberal wackos and lefties more than you love any other peace loving true Christian. You hate Christians, admit it. And you try to teach us about love ?! Give me a break.
I was intrigued by him until I noticed he's a mason. No wonder he knew the economic collapse was coming. What is it with the Baptist and the Masons? There's something fishy going on around here. If he's a high ranking mason then he's got info into the NWO & their agenda to destabilize the economy & seize power. I'm wary now to take his financial advice. I don't trust masons.
Has he gleaned this info from them then struck out on his own to make a fortune upon the backs of unwary Christians? Christians have been inundated with what I call money-rakers taking every opportunity to separate them from their hard earned cash. So he's right about the collapse. He's ties with masonry suggests to me he had inside info as to the ancient agenda & capitalized on it. I don't consider anyone who capitalizes on the fears & needs of others to pad their own pockets as truly Christian. Just because someone purports to be something not only isn't always true, but gives true Christians bigger black eyes than we've already received from charlatans parading as the real deal. True Christians I beg you to be careful about who you support. Don't just rush out and buy every book. Do some research & if you find someone is a mason, let your red flag go up & heed it. Unless I hear that he has renounced masonry I'll not support him or defend him in any way.
ref from insider above
"….; Masonic Lodge, Scottish Rite, Al Chymia Temple, Alpha Gama Rho Fraternity, Kiwanis, Tenn….. "
I'm sorry but I LMAO (if you don't know at that means, ask your kids) on the "What is it with the Baptists and the Masons". That's hilarious. Also the "I don't trust Masons" part. Very funny. I have to tell my sister who's a standup comic. She opened a set before a very small non-denominational church (and the pastor was really cool to let a comedian provide the entertainment) "This is my first time to perform for Masons." Brought the house down.
TheBlackAmerican writes:—"Because you don’t believe in Jesus, do you think it is your right to Demonize every Christian opinion as extremist ? I bet you love the Islamo-fascists, the liberal wackos and lefties more than you love any other peace loving true Christian. You hate Christians, admit it. And you try to teach us about love ?! Give me a break."
Gimme a break yourself. It was a born again rightwing fundamentalist whacko (who happened also to be president of the United States) who announced that we were going on a "Crusade" against the Islamic Fundamentalists of the world who dared attack us—not realizing (or, worse, realizing all too well) how that would play in the ears of every Muslim on the planet.
Christians of certain mindset see any criticism of their principle beliefs as hatred incarnate. Reason plays no part in it. We can't say anything short of agreeing with your world view completely that does not seem like denunciation, rejection, or condemnation.
So get over yourself. If anyone has a lock on hatred, it is the religious, who claim to know so much about it. And about love. Even while they're consigning those who do not belief as they do to hell, both here and in a putative afterlife.
Attn: TheBlackAmerican,
Since the written word shows no inflection, was your last post written in a tone of loving concern for the souls of all those that "love the Islamo-fascists, the liberal wackos and lefties"?
It's difficult to tell this ifrom a posting.
Now for a true story.
Many years ago, the brother of a classmate of mine had a motorcycle accident that severed a major nerve bundle in his right sholder and left his right arm completely paralysed. His parents took him to all the specialists, who all told them that nothing could restore the use of his arm. Ther parents, devout Christians, decided to take the journey to Oklahoma to see if Oral Robert would heal their son.
In Tulsa, they wre required to fill out losts of paperwork for admission to the service. The paperwork seemed concerned mostly about their finances and requested information about the value of their home, amount in their savings accounts, and and the value of their investments. Arriving before the service, representatives of the Oral Roberts Ministries read through the "application" and told them that Dr. Roberts would heal their son for a minimum $250,000 donation. This was in 1968, when middle class income was between $35,000 and $50,000 per year and the families total net worth was around $180,000.
Needless to say, they lost their faith in faith healers.
I heard Dr Bates for th first time the other day and wasn't sure what to make of him. Your article has been very informative and helps me get a better oicture of the man and his teaching – especially the stuff about gold and silver. He was saying that Christians should a) move out of town and buy property in the country; b) stock up big reserves of food and water; c) get lots of gold and silver; d) get ready to defend themselves (with guns, I think.) None of this is in keeping with the teaching of Jesus or the New Testament. A few random quotes from the Old Testament are worthless as sound Christian teaching. So thanks a lot – from reader in England
Well….now that gold has reached $1k per ounce and is rising even FASTER amongst other world currencies, what do the naysayers believe now? You can either get your information from the world or from God. The world is full of deception and God's love is perfect. Take your choice, but don't forget….time is short.
Dear "held by request"… are you saying this guy is God? Also, please change your name!
Have you changed your mind yet? Open your eyes and look around.
Saw larry bates on TV last night. Yep…like it or not this guy pretty well has it down.
Go ahead and bash him all ya like cuz in just a matter of years you will see a police state mentality here in the US as our dollar crashes (thank you Nancy Pelosi/Harry Reid/ Bush and Obama. Unemployment (now at 14%..do not believe the gov stats). The rise of the amero and the North American Union will prevail as Americans act like cowards and surrender their constitutional rights to a bunch of pigs.
Won't be long and you'll meet the Boss. You'll have ample time to tell him He was wrong about Israel and all His "senseless" violence recorded in the Bible.
First of all I must say, congratulations on being open-minded enough to listen to what Larry Bates had to say and seeking others' views, especially a Christian Radio Show to learn more of what is going on in America during these end times (whether it be for any individual and/or as prophesied in The Holy Bible)-Each day, if we even get that, we are getting closer to death, which is a fact.
Have you or anyone else tested or tried any of the products, strategies, or methods offered by Larry Bates? If so, I would like to hear from you.
As radical as Larry Bates sounds, there was also a radical person who came over 2,000 years ago who came to earth and claimed to be God, Jesus Christ. The world has never been the same and most all of the prophecies from the Holy Bible have come true along with historical evidence. No one can disprove the truths, although many have gone to great lengths to do so. Yes, you really have to be careful, even vital, in whom to believe and trust, for it shapes you, your family, all who surround you, and most of all-where you will spend eternity and how you will be judged by our Maker.
As a Democrat, I find Mr. Vieth's comments to be less of a condemnation of Dr. Bates as it is a condemnation of Christians as a whole. I take offence to Mr. Vieth's comments mostly due to the fact that he has resorted to the exact same pattern of hype that Dr. Bates has. Although, Mr. Vieth has done it with more artistic flair, he cannot, honestly, say that he went in with the open mind as he would have us believe. Mr. Vieth's intent was, purely, to critisize any view that differed from his own.
To answer a few questions.
Q1. I wondered whether it would be an impossible task to convince the people in that audience to put down their Bibles and roll up their sleeves when they discuss politics.
A1. Yes. Nor should Christians be asked to. They have the Bible as their guide. Asking them to put down their Bibles when discussing politics, would be like asking you to put aside your arrogance in thinking that the Bible has no value in everyday life. Or that it somehow deminishes their mental reasoning. Socialism, is not the goal of most Democrats, contrary to popular belief. Those who support it, in my view, are missguided and have fallen into the trap of a "liberal" eduacational system. One I haven't seen so fervernt since the Hitler Youth programs of Nazi Germany. Yes, I know this is a strong and offensive statement, however, you cannot argue that there is an arrogance rising in our youth. An arrogance of self. As dangerous and offensive an arrogance as that of Hitler's Youth. Which, by the way, is the very model of our present educational "indoctrinal" system.
Q2. I wondered whether these people would ever be willing to open their minds to diverse ideas from people who might look and act differently than they do.
A2. Yes, This is how missions are founded. However, I believe the question you really wanted to ask, is "Would these people ever be willing to embrace, what they consider to be, sinful behavior". I am confident that the answer is "NO".
Q3. I wondered whether Bates’ fans would ever be willing to look at their own cherished ideas as skeptically as they look at the ideas of others.
A3. The point you are missing here, is that most Christians were not raised in the "Church". Most Christians come from the "World". Most have already looked at these ideas with skepticism and have come to embrace them from their own experiences while in the "world".
Q4. I wondered whether they would ever be capable of pretending, even for a moment, that they were not under attack by all of those people of the world who they don’t know well.
A4. You did quite well in answering this question yourself. By asking them to "pretend" that they are not under attack you, yourself reinforce the fact that they are, and have been for quite some time, under attack. We have stripped their right to free speech, we have mocked their beliefs and their God. No other faith on earth would tolerate such treatment. Not budists, not Jews and certainly not Muslims. We are in danger of creating a backlash just like the libetartians faced in the 16th & 17th century's.
Q5. I wondered whether they could ever be convinced to consider that strangers are, for the most part, people with hopes, dreams and fears much like their own.
A5. I would venture to say that most true Christians have known this for a better part of the history of their faith. Yes, many things are done in the name of God and Jesus that do not abide the the teaching of Jesus or cannot be found in the Bible. However, you cannot say any more that any other faith. Certainly not Government.
Q6. Is it even possible for people to consider that there is a vast commonality all people share and that this could really be a starting point for a functional world view, one that is not based on paranoia?
A6. To answer this question, I shall para-phraze your question to its true intent. "Is it even possible for people to consider that there is a vast commonality all people share and that this could really be a starting point for a "One World View", one that is not based on paranoia, but on propaganda and indoctrination?"
I'm a pastor from England. I really appreciate the time you put in to look at this, and the helpful and thorough analysis. God bless you!
Dear LARRY BATES,
I am trying to sign up for the newsletter concerning information about gold & silver investments. I was listening to you on JIM BAKKER SHOW & I am a christian & I need some direction on the future. The LORD woke me up & I started to listen to you, I have seen you on his show several times.So Please! send me information about the economy. Thanks, MURIEL STRICKLAND
This article was written in 2007!
The financial meltdown came in Sept/Oct/2009.
Looks like Larry Bates is a PROPHET!!!
Everything he talked about has come true!
I suggest all of the above get your Bibles out & start reading (and understanding God's Word).
As far as people above 60 yrs of age attending this conference & one ignorant comment about people talking advantage of the 'above 60' group …… please be advised that I am in that group. And I didn't just crawl out from under a rock! I have been a business women for the past 45 years owned a successful business & am College/University educated. I ALSO read the Bible am a Christian, believe God's Word to be inerrant. Larry Bates made the writer & most of the people who commented on this article out to be totally ignorant of what is happening in the world.
Guess he wrote this article too early!
How about a follow-up or is he too embarrassed?
You Bates apologists amuse me. ALL economists know that we hit cycles of bust and boom. That is entirely predictable and predicted by all economists. Where is it that Larry Bates said WHEN we'd be hitting this current period of bust? Go ahead and link us to that prediction that it was going to happen in late 2008 and I'll acknowledge that Larry guessed that right.
Topic 2: Assume that Larry could really predict the bust better than the hundreds of other economists out there who predicted it (consider Peter Schiff, for example http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/14/this-guy… ). Is that a reason to embrace the crazy end times prophecies of Bates? If so, show me a photo of Jesus walking around in 2009 or or the lucky "good" people rising into heaven.
I have long expressed concern about the way the US was running its economy. I have long expressed dismay that what is driving the danger is massive debt by both individuals and governments. Many of you commenters act as though I said everything was economically rosey, though I claimed that. Never. Click on the category "economics" at this website and double-check me.
Mr Vieth,
Good day,
To say that the bible is inerrant please interview Josh McDowell, whose IQ is at genious level and was an atheist, he set out to prove the bible wrong. Needless to say he's a christian now. Ask Lee Strobel, who himself was an atheist, the editor of the Chicago Tribune's legal section of their paper, and now well reknowned author. Lee's first book " A Case for Christ", written from an attorney's investigative perspective, spent 2 years investigating and interviewing pastors, scholars, and respected christian and non christian leaders as if he were putting the bible on trial. Well, you can guess what happened, Lee became a christian and is a pastor today-read Lee's book Mr. Vieth and I believe you'll get some of your questions answered. Josh McDowell himself has since written several books himself, one that comes to mind is "Evidence That Demands a Verdict" or "More Than A Carpenter"; but be ready with an open mind as these 2 men were and come to some sort of a conclusion after discovering the truth!
The latest moves by Obama and the power hungry congress will put this country in dire straits. Do you watch Glenn Beck? He predicted this over 18 months ago and he's no economist. You can't put $1 TRILLION in an economy and not have inflation; this has been tried before in Japan, most recently during the 90's and it was called the lost decade.
What I'm about to say may sound crazy but seems coincendental, John F Kennedy actually printed $4 billion in silver certificates, money printed by the government (not the federal reserve-which is NOT a govt entity but privately owned)and JFK was assinated 18 months later. Ronald Reagan wanted to bring the Fed Reserve into the govt but was advised against even trying it.
National healthcare-please give me a break, ask Canada and britian how their govt healthcare quite frankly sucks! Besides the govt is actually the cause for the malaise we're in now-ask Chris Dodd and Barney Frank, both of whom took money from AIG-Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac and asked them to make loans to people who can't pay them then trun right around and blame the companies they encouraged to make bad loans.
Finally, what are the liberal economists and politicians afraid of, losing their power so they make people more reliant on govt. Reagan inherited a worse economy-compliments of another liberal-terrorist loving nut Jimmy Carter-and he saved the country by cutting taxes for all-corporations, people, and investors(people too). I'll end it with Reagan's quote " Government isn't the solution, big government is THE problem".
So Mr vieth what will you do? If you are ruly seeking answers then read the above mentioned books.
At the foot of the cross,
Wayne
Wayne: Here are a few foolish atheists you should consider before telling me to gain my education at the "foot of the cross."
Where do you see me arguing that we're not going to have inflation? I fear this big time. Before you attack me, take the time to learn my positions.
People, out here in Kenya, some have begun to understand that what Larry bates talks about is not that accurate: it is vastly understated. Whether you believe it or not, this is what the God of Heaven says:
1. The Wedding of the Lamb (rapture of the church) is ready. It may happen any time. The count down is between 1 and zero. As in the times of Noah, when the clock (not Big Ben or other earthly clock) strikes midnight, the door will be shut: The rapture will be over. The door is still open. Enter now. Hurry Sir and Madam. If you want to ask questions, I am sorry I have no time.
2. The seven seals of Rev. 6 are being opened In August 2008 at Nakuru Kenya (night of 23-23th), the release fo the Black Horse was announced. The ridder is on earth already. Mission: cause economic hardship and global famine. Reason: We have turned to the worship of money and wealth; God wants to take it away so we may return to him. Will it happen? Economic turmoil is all around us. Obviously Larry Bates has forseen it – he is visionary.
3. When the 4th seal is opened, teh pale horse will be released; its rider is Death and Hades and rapture will be over. The antichrist will be released together with his prophet. They will take control of the earth for 7 years; Seven years of terror for anyone who dares to worship the Lord Jehovah. For this reason, do not plan to miss the rapture. As the prophet of God says: where will you hide. The rapture is the end. The rapture is the JUDGEMENT because there is n second chance.
4. Remember the message of John the Baptist: Repent. Repent the repentance of Nineveh, in sackcloth and with fasting. Repent for you sins and those of your children, your ancestors. Do not return to sin. Pray for the Holy Spirit to lead every aspect of your life. Only the Holy Spirit can prepare you for rapture. Make good friends with Him. Worship Him as you do the LORD and Christ.
Read Luke 21 and Joel, Daniel, Revelations. If you want to wait and see, remember they did the same in Noah's time. I do not desire to frighten anyone or sound like a mad man – but I tell you when you see disaster coming you don't worry about what you sound like; you just yell. I am yelling people.
Shalom
Okay everyone, stand back, I'll do it!!
Jason…how can you be certain that's what "God" says? You do realize that doomsday predictions have been made over and over again for thousands of years?
My friend – you ask how he can be certain this is going to happen?
I suggest you get your Bible out & start reading from the Book of Genesis!
Then you just might 'get it'!!!!
I was an agnostic. At age 40 I committed my life to Jesus Christ as Saviour & Lord. I am a Bible College graduate & have studied the Bible for the past 25 years.
I can absolutely guarantee you 1000% what this man has said is the truth. If you do not know God's Word than you are ignorant of the truth & reality of what is happening & will happen. He said it all in a nutshell. Thank you Jason for your posting.
GOD says people do not want to listen because they are rebellious, stubborn & stiffnecked …. do I need to say more.
God's clock IS at 1 minute to minute …. the rapture could occur at any moment. You probably don't have enought time to read the entire Bible at this point – therefore I suggest you jump to the back of the Book & read 'Revelation' – take in the Book of Daniel while you are at it!!
It's all about TRUST! Who do you trust? A skeptic will always be a skeptic while theres no trust. And a skeptic only belieive himself and that is called 'self- righteousness' and self righteous people are scarey folk.
Beck: I disagree. I think that the most trustworthy people are those who are skeptical about their own motives and their own viewpoint. The people I trust least are know-it-alls of all stripes.
Awesomely written article. It's the "Armagettinouttahere" Armageddon approach that fascinates me. And makes me incredibly sad. Jesus warned about the leaven of the Pharisees (folks who believe in a God who sentences people their lot in life — think of a child born into poverty) and the leaven of Herod (folks who believe God helps those who help themselves…a pull yourself up by your own bootstraps mentality). Both views leave out a real personal God who genuinely loves each human being and cares about them.
The healthcare thing is nuts. I believe in preventative medicine — most of us could stand to lose a few pounds 🙂 — but when I had septicemia in my 20s despite being an incredibly healthy person overall, it was the antibiotics that saved my life. They killed the right bugs.
And… so… after all, Bates was right about the financial collapse. He might be right about everything else right?
Really, Xinthia? Because a person is right about one thing, they are automatically right about anything else they happened to say?
See also, my challenge to those who claim that the general predication of severe economic problems (without specifics as to time frame) wasn't also made by numerous people other than Larry Bates.