Inerrant Biblical Geology Falls Flat
February 13th, 2008 by Dan KlarmannThere are 2 places in the Bible that can be interpreted (by squinting at just the right translation) as saying that the Earth is less than 10,000 years old. This point of geology is made by counting Genesis periods (”days” in most English translations) and lifetimes in the (assumed complete) genealogies (in which “months” and “years” are regularly cross-translated).
A point that the Bible makes more often and more clearly is that the world is flat. Yep, if you believe in the inerrancy of Bible, then the world is flat. The moon landing hoax conspiracy theory actually got its start from the Flat Earth Society (http://theflatearthsociety.org, or Here is a flat earth site that Google likes better).
Anyway, this is about the pure truth of the Bible with links to the 12 cited passages:
- Dn.4:11: The tree grew, and it became strong enough and tall enough to reach the sky. It could be seen everywhere on earth.
(Describe a shape from all points of which a vertical line can be seen) - Dn.2:35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.
(Describe a solid shape that another object can completely cover by expanding its size without deforming) - Dn.4:20 You saw an oak tree grow and become strong enough and tall enough to reach the sky. It could be seen everywhere on earth.
(Describe a solidshape from all points of which a vertical line can be seen) - Is.40:22: It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in.
(Describe a shape on which one might stand and look up at all points to see a stretched canvas that contains the stars, planets, etc) - Ez.7:2 And thou, son of man, thus saith the Lord Jehovah unto the land of Israel, An end: the end is come upon the four corners of the land.
(The Earth has 4 corners. Draw it in 3 dimensions) - Mt.4:8 Again, the devil took Him to a very high mountain and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory;
(Describe a shape of which all points can be seen by rising arbitrarily high above it) - 1_Chr.16:30 Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.
(Fixed Earth, unlike the claims of heretics like Copernicus and Galileo) - Ps.96:10 Say among the nations, The Lord is King; yes, the world is ordered so that it may not be moved; he will be an upright judge of the peoples.
(Clearly, that the Earth is stationary and fixed is an unquestioned assumption here)
Ps.104:5 He has made the earth strong on its bases, so that it may not be moved for ever and ever;
(The Earth is stationary and fixed on a solid set of mountings) - Job.9:6 Who is moving the earth out of its place, so that its pillars are shaking:
(But those pillars on which the Earth sits can be shaken by the right fella) - 1_Sam.2:8 He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, He lifteth up the needy from the dunghill, To make them sit with princes, And inherit the throne of glory: For the pillars of the earth are Jehovah’s, And he hath set the world upon them.
(The Earth must rest solidly on its pillars) - Job.38:4-6 Where were you when I put the earth on its base? Say, if you have knowledge.
Who determined the measures thereof, if thou knowest? Or who stretched the line upon it?
Whereupon were the foundations thereof sunken? or who laid its corner-stone,
(Given the truth of a flat Earth resting on pillars that in turn rest on foundations, the question is, “Who laid those foundations?”)
So, you can see that if you accept the weak Biblical evidence the the Earth is young, you certainly must accept that it is flat, immobile, four-cornered, and resting on pillars under a canopy.
February 14th, 2008 at 11:54 pm
Dan: This is a great collection. Thanks for gathering it. Good thing you got this information out of an inerrant book. Think how much worse your information would have been had you gotten it out of an errant book.
March 24th, 2008 at 5:06 pm
Ok, these are too easy. I literally laughed when I saw them. As usual, you have started in the middle. As I have tried to tell you before; put things in context.
Dn. 4:11- To understand what this is, you need only to read the entire chapter. This is part of a dream that King Nebuchadnezzar had. It was a warning to him. Daniel gives the interpretation starting in verse 20. The “tree” is the king.
Dn. 4:20 - I answered this above. Had you read through to the end you would have seen, easily, what this meant.
Dn. 2:35 - Here again, it is simply a matter of reading it all. It was another dream that King Nebuchadnezzar had and that Daniel (who was renamed, by the king, Belteshazzar) interpreted. It was a prophesy about the future. The clay, iron,etc. were kingdoms. The rock was God. This is also a prophesy about the coming Messiah.
Is. 40:22 - Do I have to say it again? Read the whole chapter! It is a word from God, spoken through the Prophet Isaiah. It is God saying, basically, that He is greater than all things, that He is above all things, and that, compared to Him, this is what creation is like. He is doing so in a very poetic way, but, when read in context with the rest of the chapter, it is very easy to see what He is saying.
Ez. 7:2 - The “land” is not the earth. If you had only read……well, you know. The “land” spoken of is Israel. God is speaking through His prophet Ezekiel to Israel and telling them that He is going to judge them. The “four corners” is quite simply a reference to “all of it”. It’s like if He had said north, south, east, west.
Mt. 4:8 - This one is far too easy. Satan, once Lucifer, a very powerful (created) spiritual being, is speaking to the God of creation. Don’t you think they could both see, spiritually, all of the kingdoms of the earth? Satan was not only speaking of the kingdoms currently in existence, but all that would ever be. He isn’t saying that they had extremely good eyesight, for crying out loud.
1 Chr. 16:30 - This is a Psalm of thanks by King David. In this particular line he is saying that all is settled firmly as it should be, that God is in control. He also writes that the “trees of the forest will sing for joy before the Lord”. Do you really think that he means that they will literally sing? He is saying that all creation will and should rejoice because God is in control.
Ps. 96:10 - see above. Same song.
Ps. 104:5 - Pretty much the same thing as above. David is speaking of the creation in Genesis. The “earth” here is not the planet, but the “land” as apposed to the sky and sea. God set boundaries.
Job 9:6 - Job is saying ‘Who is man to argue with God’. If you would only read before and after, he is referring in this line,”Who is moving the earth out of its place, so that its pillars are shaking”, to the earth (land) shaking. Ever hear of an earthquake. He is saying that God is far greater than man. He gives a whole list of things besides this.
1 Sam. 2:8 - A prayer of the greatness of God. Using poetry to describe His power and majesty. Much like 1 Chr. 16:30 & Ps. 96:10.
Job 38:4-6 - Here God is speaking to Job, who has been complaining. In terms that Job can understand, He is saying, much as He might say to you; We’re you there? Tell me, oh brilliant man, how all this was created. Can you do what I have done?
I’m really disappointed. I thought I would get at least a small work out here. As it was, it was just time consuming. I would say that the person who posted these was either going strictly by what someone else told them, or had a definite agenda to discredit the Bible by means of omission. Purposely leaving out parts that would make it all very clear. Certainly though, not a scholar.
March 24th, 2008 at 7:01 pm
Russ: If I get your drift, the Bible makes perfect literal sense as long as you are willing to believe, literally, in the existence of the devil, a curmudgeonly God, etc etc.
As long as you are using the literary device of dreams to escape trouble, why not assume that ALL of the supernatural beings and all of the miracles mentioned in the Bible are actually dream sequences? If you’d do that, we could quickly find common ground.
March 25th, 2008 at 5:55 am
It is sad to see such an obviously intelligent person throw out all rules of interpretation used for any piece of literature when it comes to the Bible. I have read Russ’ response and have to agree with him. The point here isn’t if you agree with the Bible’s views on sin and a Savior or not. The point here is that you have simply refused to show this piece of literature the respect you would most likely give any other piece of literature. For this reason it is just impossible to take your point of view seriously.
You are obviously intelligent and I do enjoy your site. However, until you are willing to discuss the Bible with the same rules of interpretation that you would any other piece of literature I simply must reject your views as those of a person who has failed to do his research.
March 25th, 2008 at 9:29 am
Simply put; I am not using “the literary device of dreams to escape trouble”. I didn’t have to make anything up in order to refute the claims that Dan had made. The passages that I said were dreams, are passages that the Bible says are dreams. Anyone who had actually read the material that they purpose to critique would, or should, see that very easily. It’s one thing to disaggree with something. It’s quite another to say that it says something completely, and obviously, differant than what it does, in order to discredit it. Here’s a question that you might ask yourself. Have you ever wondered why you, and the others who post here, spend such a significant portion of your days tearing down one particular religion and one particular religious book? I looked around and couldn’t find any slams of Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, etc.. Islam teaches that Muhammad flew to Heaven on a winged horse. Where are all the rants about that? No, you have one particular agenda here.
March 25th, 2008 at 11:44 am
Russ: I was being somewhat snarky and I apologize. My frustration stems from this: the Believers expect a whole lot out of the skeptics (in terms of leaps beyond the evidence) when it comes to their favorite theories. It’s OK to discuss devils and walking on water as though they are uncontroversial claims for many believers, and therefore skeptics should just go along with the argument taking these things as true. But when it comes to analyzing modern techniques for determining the age of the planet, gad, the Believers crank up their skepticism to levels that often exceed the levels of skeptics. It often borders on nihilism.
You’re right about the designation of one passage as a dream.
Why do I pick on fundamentalist Christians more than other religions? I have to deal with the fallout from those beliefs. I happen to live among many more Christians than people of other faiths. I would like to think that if I live elsewhere, I’d be critical of fundamentalists that happen to live there. Note: as you can see by most of my writings on religion, my concern is far more with fundamentalists than with moderate believers of any stripe.
March 26th, 2008 at 9:10 am
Russ,
To underscore what Erich says about why we pick on christianity more, it is simple: all those other religions you mention have already been dismissed by christians who claim the Bible is inerrant. There’s no need to undo them in detail as christians have already done that, but without seeing that their own belief in their holy book is no different than any other religious person’s belief in theirs. I actually have had little experience of other faiths so meticulously disemboweling christianity the way christianity has done for centuries. While Hindus, Buddhists, Taoists, Jainists, Shintoists, Muslims, etc etc etc may think christians are wrong, I don’t see the ridicule.
As well, we live in a “christian” society. Therefore, we deal with the dominant delusion.
But just so we’re clear, just as I think much in the Bible is fabrication and fantasy, so too in other religions. You want real fantasy? Read the Bhagavad Gita. Star Wars ain’t got nothin’ on these guys. As far as I’m concerned, all religions—as far as the foundational myths are concerned—are the same and by carefully examining one, by extension you do them all.