Now here is a question I’d never thought to ask. Not of myself, mind you. I discarded belief in any afterlife long ago. But it is a good question to pose to fundamentalist Christians. And so Rachel Evans did. Credit where due, I found it via the Friendly Atheist.
If you read her post and comments, you see a lot of hemming and hawing from Chrisitans who believe a) in a kind, loving, and just God who b) sends everyone to hell except the most extreme sycophants. They try to have it both ways.
In brief, yes, all Jews go to Hell. But when considering this actual young, innocent person, who was a victim of Martin Luther’s plan enacted by a Catholic leader, they sputter.
Good post Dan! Of course she and all Jews go to hell for their inability to believe something that cannot be reasonably defended. But we don't know what Hitler did in his final moments. Maybe he said the magic words with real conviction and got into heaven? The Lord works in mysterious ways.
There are a few Christian churches that believe Jesus actually succeeded in his mission to take original sin and all other sins upon himself and atone for it. That is, we are born in a state of grace, and are forgiven all other sins against God. Everyone. Even child-molesting clergy, heretics, atheists, and other scum.
Their view is that we should feel grateful and celebrate his sacrifice, and to live daily mindful that we were given a reprieve. But heaven is not predicated on obsequiousness to Christ and His Holy Order.
Silly Klarmann, of course not! See ya there!
http://dangerousintersection.org/2009/04/28/catho…
In heaven, I mean!
I once "accepted Jesus into my heart" at a Christian camp; soon afterwards, I asked him to leave. My Christian friend's opinion on whether I'll go to hell? Not if Jesus is still there – in my heart, I mean. She said that only Jesus can decide whether he leaves.
@Zoevinly: When you accepted Jesus, faith is now born unto you. Faith is a substance, the conviction of the unseen, it has a measurement that only God can measure. Faith is the connection between you and God, and if you want not to believe anymore, the communication is gone. May God forgive you for what you've done.
signus: I think that "God" is your hand-puppet. Maybe there ought to be a convention of people who have God hand-puppets, and their puppets can argue with each other all day long.
"Faith is a substance"? Is this like the Scientology contention that thoughts have mass?
Many years ago, an inquisitive young lad asked for resolution of the Trinity. Of course, there was none coming. (But I did get an answer, such as it is, on my own when I read Richard Rubenstein's "When Jesus Became God: The Struggle to Define Christianity during the Last Days of Rome".)
Many years later, it occurs to me to wonder, briefly, if the Trinity believers should be referring to Him as They?
Jim: Interesting . . . Why is it that so many believers speak of God in the singular? It's not like the Gods are completely blended. Believers speak of Jesus as a distinct personality and they speak of God the Father as a distinct personality (I don't know of any people who pray specifically to the Holy Spirit, but I assume some such folks exist). Given that the alleged persons in God are distinct, the only appropriate pronoun is the plural (they or them).
Have you read Rubenstein's book? Pretty slick maneuvering by Athanasius to establish Jesus as a god and not just the son of God. Borrowing again from existing myths, they opted for a Trinity (instead of a Binity?) because I guess three is better than two. Although politically, the triangle isn't as stable as its geometric parallel.
Anyway, 'twas quite the debate and controversy among the early Christian clergy. They couldn't agree back then either.
Jim: Bart Ehrman has a lot to say about the trinity in his newest book. "The Nicene Creed and the Trinity were constructs of the later church and are not found in the pages of the Bible." http://dangerousintersection.org/2010/08/22/if-bi… I'm halfway through the book, and it's excellent reading.
I've always figured that "The Father" is the alcoholic, abusive, largely absentee daddy from the Old Testament, Jesus, "The Son" is the enabling, protective and guilt-spawning mommy, and "The Holy Ghost" is the nostalgic memory of these wonderful parents.
are you kidding?
This is the same point being made by those who suggest that, according to many Christians, Gandhi also went to hell.
No one (Christian or non-Christian) can know the condition of Anne Frank’s heart when she died. Only God Himself knows her eternal destination. Before proceeding with this train of thought, some things need to be clarified. God created Adam and Eve (progenitors of the human race) to fellowship with Him. God made a covenant with them, which they, of their own free will, chose to break by covenanting with Satan (the serpent). When they broke covenant with God, they exchanged God’s Blessings for Satan’s unholy package of curses which included spiritual and physical death, every known and unknown sin, depravity, perversion, sickness, disease and poverty. Adam and Eve’s decision to covenant with Satan resulted in a wide gulf that separated them from God’s Presence, Relationship and Fellowship. In the Old Testament under the Old Covenant, the shedding of animal blood atoned for sins. (This is why God provided animal skins to cover their nakedness, of which they became aware after they sinned by eating the forbidden fruit.)
To bring mankind back into right relationship and fellowship with Him, God devised a Plan of Salvation. He gave His Only Begotten Son, Jesus Christ, to redeem mankind from the curse of spiritual death (John 3:16). Jesus Christ was the sinless, spotless sacrificial Lamb of God whose shed Blood atoned for our sins under God’s New Covenant. God created hell for the devil and his angels (Matthew 25:41). God doesn’t send anyone to hell. With Satan’s help, unbelievers unwittingly send themselves to hell by willfully rejecting Jesus Christ as Savior and God’s free gift of Salvation. And, when they die and find themselves in hell, Satan is there to welcome them, grinning from ear-to-ear and gloating, “Gotcha!”
Believing that there is One God, from an intellectual standpoint, isn’t how a person’s spirit and soul go to Heaven upon physical death. Devils believe in God too, and tremble, but they do not dwell in Heaven (James 2:19). A person can possess head knowledge about The Bible and Jesus Christ, but his/her “heart condition” is what is relevant and God sees and knows every heart. Salvation or the Washing and Regeneration of a person’s spirit by The Holy Spirit is a miraculous event that occurs instantaneously when certain conditions are met: a sinner must humble himself before God and with godly sorrow repent of his sins and/or sinful lifestyle, acknowledge his need for Jesus Christ as Savior, and surrender his heart to Him. Every person who experiences a spiritual New Birth is changed and transformed into a new creature (Titus 3:5; 2 Corinthians 5:17).
If Anne Frank heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ at least once in her short lifetime and rejected Jesus as Savior, then she is in hell. (I didn’t say this … God said it in His Word and that settles it.) However, if Anne never heard the Gospel during her lifetime, according to Romans Chapter 2, she will be judged by God according to the law that He put in our conscience. That judgment is known only by God. In John 15:22, Jesus said: “If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin.” God’s Plan of Salvation is no different under the New Covenant than it was under the Old, only the Sacrifice for sin to be forgiven, cleansed, and atoned for has changed; therefore no one can be saved under Old Covenant any more. They can be saved ONLY under the New Covenant. An Israeli who dies without Jesus will go the same place as a Gentile who dies without Jesus, unless they have never heard the Gospel. In the latter case, Romans Chapter 2 applies and only God knows where they will be sent. Piety means nothing without atonement for sin; Talmud Rabbis reject this. Rabbis are teaching a lie when they ignore the Torah requirement for sin to be atoned for. Jesus rebuked the Jewish Clergy for enforcing Talmud over Torah. Mark 7:13 “making the word of God of no effect through your tradition (talmud) which you have handed down. And many such things you do.” The sole reason the Temple was destroyed in 70 AD was twofold: their rejection of Jesus Christ the Messiah and because God no longer honors the Old Covenant sacrifices. Israelis are being taught Rabbinic Judaism [Talmud] which says “Piety to the best of your ability will grant you eternal life,” TOTALLY ignoring what the Torah says about Atonement. Talmud Rabbis “misuse scripture” to validate their claim against Leviticus 16 [annual sacrifice] and Lev. 17:11 [the blood atones]. Jesus lived and preached Biblical Judaism [Torah] and condemned Rabbinic Judaism [Talmud]. Biblical Judaism under the New Covenant is God’s plan of Salvation and is required to receive eternal life for both Israelis and Gentiles.
A non-Believer (non-Christian) … a person whose spirit has not been “born again” (transformed by the New Birth of Washing and Regeneration by the Holy Spirit) … walks in spiritual darkness and therefore cannot understand or interpret The Holy Bible. Interpretation of the Scriptures is imparted by The Holy Spirit, who leads Believers into all Truth. This explains why an unbeliever will always reject the Truth of God’s Written Word and the idea that a loving God would judge as a lost sinner, an innocent young Jewish girl who suffered hell on earth during the Holocaust. Because of Adam and Eve’s original sin, we their descendants inherited the above curses as well as tribulation and suffering. Fortunately, no human has ever suffered like Jesus Christ did before and during His Crucifixion. His Father did not coerce Him to sacrifice His life for the life of every man, woman and child; Jesus gave His Life because of His Love for mankind.
The Bible says that God is no respecter of persons (Acts 10:34), which means that He does not play man’s “partiality and favorites” game. If Anne Frank had knowledge of Jesus Christ and rejected Him as Savior when she died, then she would not have gone to Heaven. Jesus was very clear about how a person inherits eternal life when in John 14:6, He told His disciples, “I am the way and the truth and the life: no man comes to the Father but by Me.”
If Anne Frank died having rejected Jesus Christ and entered into Heaven, then the Son of God died on Calvary’s cross in vain. There would have been no reason for a Plan of Salvation and a Redeeming Savior because EVERYONE on planet Earth would go to Heaven when they die, including unrepentant murderers, pedophiles, etc. (Yes, the Universal Salvation doctrine constitutes heresy.) God is not the author of confusion, nor does He contradict or go against His Word.
As for where Anne Frank is, it is futile to speculate what is known only by God. No Christian or non-Christian can know the condition of her heart (soul) at the point of death … only God Himself. All of Creation (the Heavens and all life forms on Earth) points to and declares the Glory of God, The Creator (Psalm 19:1). The diversity of every life form, the perfection of Planet Earth’s location in relation to our moon and sun, etc. all point to a Divine Plan and Planner. The stars, the moon, the planets, the galaxies all have a voice and no voice is without signification (1 Corinthians 14:10). Those who do not believe that God Almighty exists and reject The Holy Bible as His Written Word are fools (Psalm 14:1). They are spiritually blind (dead) and deaf because they cannot see or hear God in His Creation.
I will close by saying that Jesus Christ has many diverse ways to reveal Himself to a lost and dying soul, including Anne Frank. He will speak through His Written Word. He will speak through a Preacher of the Gospel. He will speak one-on-one in an audible voice. He will send a Christian across an unbeliever’s path to witness about Jesus, and He will speak through night dreams and daytime visions. All things are possible with God and His Will and Heart’s Desire are that no person should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9). Therefore, rather than speculate about Anne Frank’s eternal destination which God alone knows, why not choose to believe that Anne Frank is one whom Jesus Christ was able to reach and save before she drew her last breath.