Why would God be justified destroying an entire city right now? Because we’re bad. How do you know we’re bad? Because of lesbian sex.
How do we learn all of this? Because when minister John MacArthur says so, James Dobson nods in approval. For more, see Crooks and Liars. Here are Mac Arthur’s words:
We haven’t had a massive calamity such as the destruction of an entire city. We certainly don’t want that to happen — pray that does not happen — but it could happen. And God would be just in any calamity that he brought upon us.
See also Bob Cesca’s spin on this intriguing theological position.
ps. Someone should tell MacArthur about New Orleans.
The hate in their hearts sickens and saddens me.
This Sam Harris quote (from the home page of Richard Dawkins' site) reminded me of the Dobson/MacArthur position:
"The fact that nearly half of the American population apparently believes this, purely on the basis of religious dogma, should be considered a moral and intellectual emergency."
Indeed, such erroneously thinking might cause America's elected officials to rush into a war without giving any concern for the outcome, on the mistaken belief that Christ would come to save them. We sure wouldn't want that to happen.
Their culpability in creating a population of hate-mongers will earn them the heated eternity of which they warn us. Do they not see such hatred as sin? That they do not is worse than despicable.
Why are Biblical stories of cities destroyed by volcanoes (Sodom, Gomorrah, etc) evidence of divine wrath, whereas comparable historically documented cities destroyed by volcanoes (Pompeii, Herculaneum) are not seen that way. One may chose to believe that the more ancient cities were destroyed because because every man, woman, child, infant, servant, visitor, traveler, priest, and slave in the city was evil. But the odds are against that.
In preindustrial times, Hurricane Katrina would have completely destroyed New Orleans. In pre-space-age times, Katrina would still have killed much of the population of that city.
We now know better than to build cities on volcanic slopes and flood planes. Actually, we don't. We are rebuilding a city (whose original purpose has long passed into history) below sea level as the scientists tell us that even worse conditions are to be expected in the coming decades.
"…And God would be just in any calamity that he brought upon us."
The Christian god is a tautology. If something good happens, it's attributed to "God's grace;" something calamitous is "God's wrath;" something in between is "God's mercy" (never, "God's indecision" or "God's hangover day"). Once you believe that a god personally directs the action of every blade of grass, *any* outcome — good, bad or balanced — becomes an opportunity to pontificate about that god.
Conveniently, of course, the labeling of "grace" or "wrath" only happens *after* some event occurs. We didn't see believers predicting that Katrina would hit New Orleans, or that 9/11 would strike NYC — believers only become all-knowing in hindsight. Indeed, when they do make predictions ("prophesies") about the future, they always add the convenient disclaimer that it cann't be a true prophesy if it has a timeframe. It's only a true prophesy if it's open-ended, thus helping to ensure that the "prophesy" will come true.
"Do they not see such hatred as sin?"
Jesus said, (or was purported to have said) "EVERYONE is welcome at my table." Once again they don't really live by the words of the man/god they claim to worship.
Once again, the inane rantings of the few are a pox upon the many which have been saved by the grace of God, who is merciful, compassionate and loving of all creation.
Whoa there, Tim. Who are you to say what is "inane ranting" and what is not? Who are you to know whether or not "many…have been saved by the grace of God" or only a few? According to your holy book, these things are known only to your god, not to you. Indeed, doesn't the Bible say that humans are notoriously bad at identifying who will ultimately be "saved" and who will not? Doesn't it mention something about "the last shall be first and the first shall be last?"
Indeed, Tim, you should be more careful about what you say, because the "merciful, compassionate and loving" god that you worship is also a jealous bastard who takes a mighty dim view of people who condemn his followers as a "pox upon the many." Is he not alleged to have destroyed entire cities for talk like yours?
I also took umbrage with Tim's statement, but was willing to let it slide, since we have already argued similar points to exhaustion. Grumpy is right though, if we are going to play the God game, maybe these "inane rantings" are actually God's wishes. Maybe the Tsunami (which mercilessly killed hundreds of thousands of God's creations), Hurricane Katrina, the Rwanda Genocide, and the 911 attack was God's way of showing compassion mercy and grace?
Doesn't really click for me either…
Ben's mention of natural and human disasters resonates with me. I've always been amazed by the way Christians spare their god the responsibility for widespread death and destruction, inventing all sorts of convenient excuses why an "omnipotent, loving god" would allow such things to happen. They see news reports about tens of thousands of people being slaughtered, then smilingly look me in the face and urge me to praise their "all-loving god." It's more than I can stomach, and one more example of Christian selection bias — or how you, too, can be God (see http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=449/).