Today, an acquaintance (I’ll call her “Laura”) asked me if I would buy some Girl Scout cookies from her daughter’s troop. I told her “No thank you.”
It’s not that I don’t enjoy eating Girl Scout cookies (I do enjoy Thin Mints and Peanut Butter Sandwich Cookies). It’s not that I generally oppose the activities of Girl Scouts. I approve of much of what Girl Scouts do.
Here’s what triggered this post. Laura told me that the average box of cookies sells for three dollars and that the average profit for each box of cookies is only fifty cents. Hmmmm.
Therefore, I can support their Girl Scouts to the same extent by handing $5 directly to the local troop or by buying $30 worth of cookies. Unless you think that eating cookies is an especially good thing, it makes much more sense to simply hand the local troop $5. Then again, eating cookies, especially a lot of cookies, is not a good thing. Cookies consist largely of refined carbohydrates and sugars. These are exactly the kinds of ingredients that invite obesity. Are the Girl Scouts concerned about obesity? Very much so (so am I), yet they continue to rely on cookie sales to fund their activities.
But let’s go back to the money for a moment. If you click here, you can see it stated that “all of the revenue” from cookie sales “stays with the local Girl Scout council that sponsors the sale.” The official site carefully points out that individual troops receive “from 12-17% of the purchase price of each box sold.” There are various important numbers that the site does not provide, however. For instance, is $.50 per box (the amount indicated to me by my acquaintance) the average amount of proceeds per box sold (as Laura indicated)? If so, the 12-17% of the purchase price of each box sold amounts to $.45 per box, which means that most of the proceeds go to the local troop. If true, it would be commendable. But we don’t know, because the Girl Scout organization does not specify how much profit is involved in the sale of each box of cookies.
All of this makes me wonder, because the Girl Scout organization is based in the middle of one of the highest rent districts in the world, 420 5th Ave in Manhattan. That’s where 400 employees work for the Girl Scout organization. But nowhere on the site will you find anything about the sales information I just mentioned, or other things I wonder, such as the salaries and perks of these 400 employees. Wouldn’t it be nice to know how much money it takes to run that fancy headquarters? How about a pie chart showing the sources of that money? Nowhere will you find the amount of that annual cookie profit money that flows back to the Girl Scout headquarters from determined efforts of little girls. Wouldn’t that be interesting to know? I suspect that, indirectly, cookie money flows back to the Girl Scout headquarters at a brisk rate. I’d be interested in knowing for sure, though, especially since my client has told me that the local troops have to purchase their own badges and other supplies with their own money. Much of what local Girl Scout troops do is not subsidized by cookie profits. I don’t know how much aggregate cookie profit is generated each year, because that is not on the website either. Maybe those cookie-revenue numbers are just too big to fit on the official Girl Scout webpage!
I have occastionally supported local Girl Scouting activity, despite my concerns with the financially opaque corporate hierarchy. I’ve decided, though, that my solution will now be to offer a direct donation to the local troop, just as I mentioned at the top of this post. Five dollars handed to a little girl who approaches you to sell cookies is the equivalent of buying $30 worth of cookies, and you can rest assured that all of that money will stay with the local troop. If you really want to get good bang for the buck and you usually buy $30 for the cookies, just hand the full $30 to local troop–that’s like buying $180 worth of cookies. In the process, everyone will be healthier and the local troop will be flush with cash to spend on those badges and other supplies that the national organization refuses to buy for them.
The Girl Scout cookie phenomenon raises an interesting issue about the way Americans think of charities. Why is it that people insist on getting something back for themselves in order to donate money to allegedly good causes? The Girl Scout cookie phenomenon is a classic case of this need for a quid pro quo. If someone really believed in the Girl Scouts, they shouldn’t need to receive cookies in return for supporting the Girl Scouts. Rather, they would just hand the local troop some money (as I’ve suggested above).
This problem (the need for a quid pro quo when soliciting for charities), is not peculiar to Girl Scouts. It’s everywhere you look. Almost every institutional charity offers stuff to people who donate. Mugs, T-shirts, videos, CDs, plaques, special access to celebrities, umbrellas, admissions to amusements, paperweights, inscribed souvenirs, admission to concerts or other special events.
Sometimes an organization will invite you to turn down any sort of gift. Kudos for those people who do so, those people who realize that demanding a gift in return for their contribution effectively reduces their contribution. They realize that those mugs, T-shirts and cookies are not free. And furthermore, who really needs more stuff of that sort?
All of this makes me wonder what kind of people we’ve become that so many of us insist on getting substantial amounts of stuff back in order to “contribute” to charities. I would suspect we’ve reached new levels of proficiency at being rampant consumers. See here and here .
Admittedly, this need for a quid pro quo is nothing new. After all, people were selling indulgences hundreds of years ago. But now, it is also much more visible and so widely accepted. It makes me frustrated enough to go eat half a box of Thin Mints. If only I had bought those cookies . . .
Do your research before posting a rant like this. Here's an average breakdown of the cost of a box of Girl Scout Cookies:
$3.50 per package
$.45 Proceeds for Troop Program Activities
$.17 Girl & Troop Recognitions & Awards
$1.90 Girl & Volunteer Program Services (camps, council programs, volunteer training, financial aid for girls who can't afford GS, etc)
$.83 cost of cookies to Baker
And yes, facilities cost money, but I suppose a program for growing strong girls would be better run by miserable employees in substandard facilities?
Girl Scouts is a non-profit organization centered around growing girls. Money is focused on the program, because the program is itself the most important element of Girl Scouting.
Maybe instead of ranting and speculating about how much you don't know about the Girl Scouts, you should call their offices and just ask these questions.
Some of the money goes directly to the troops, and some of it goes to the Council. If you think that's unfair, ask yourself if the troops would be able to do anything at all without the structure and administrative support the councils provide.
As for your concern over their 5th avenue offices, you're obviously ignorant as to the structure and governanace of the organization. 420 5th avenue is where their headquarters is located, not a council. Headquarters is a tiny fraction of the whole movement, and is responsible for the administrative work that goes into developing education programs, creating the Brand, developing fund raising plans etc. Each individual Girl Scout council (and there are over 300 of them) is a separate, individual 501(c)3 (non-profit) corporation that manages and organizes the troops within their geographic areas. This might sound crazy, but since they cover the whole country, some of them are located in more expensive areas than others. Headquarters, with thier high "rent" sees ZERO of the money you spend on a box of cookies. The cookies fund COUNCILS, NOT headquarters. That's why there's no information on the website about how much of the cookie sales fund their "rent" and employee salaries. Headquarters is funded by a combination of the $10 (gasp) yearly dues you pay to become a member, government & private grants, and donations.
I put rent in quotes above because they OWN the space they reside in, so if they're paying anybody anything for the space, it's more like a mortgage. If you ask me, that's an intelligent real estate investment. I imagine the value of that and other property they own is enough to pay some of those salaries, but I guess that's not interesting or controversial enough for you to speculate on here.
And finally, do you have anything to say about the cookie program aside from where the money goes? Do you think using the bulk of the money to pay for the councils expenses (real estate, employee salaries, advertising, communications, developing programs, renting facilities, training volunteers, all that is just free, right?) Girl Scouts solicit donations just as much as any other organization, and they also structured their cookie sale activities in a way that makes it a great learning experience for the girls. Any non-profit that wants to stay in business has multiple income paths; straight donations, volunteerism, sales. I'm rather impressed that their sales arm is also an economic literacy program for the girls, as opposed to more hired hands like some other organizations do.
So what exactly are you trying to accomplish with this bold stance against Girl Scout cookies? Aside from making incorrect assumptions about things you could have easily enquired about, or spreading innacurate information about the "corporate heirarchy" of Girl Scouts and implying that the employees are somewhere enjoying "perks" funded by the efforts of little girls who in turn gain nothing? What kind of world did you imagine before running amuck with these irrational assumptions based on a single out-of-context figure? That a 3.4 million member organization is run by a handful of volunteers sitting around a camp fire singing songs about friendship?
The one thing I do commend you for is making a donation to the council in lieu of buying a box of cookies. I'm glad to see that even though you jumped at the chance to cry shenanigans at the operations & tactics of those who run the Girl Scouts business, you went out of your way to show support for the cause.
But for those of you who are truly upset about the fact that they sell cookies when the country is in an obesity epidemic, then don't bother making donations either, because part of that donation just goes toward next year's cookie program. While you're at it, you should also stop any charitable donations to the Boy Scouts (pop corn & cookies) the Red Cross (their shelter food supplies are totally unhealthy) the Humane Society (they sold me a box of animal shaped cookies at a fund raising event last year, the bastards) your local grocery store (they use their earnings to stock their shelves with candy!) and, you know, pretty much every other business on the planet that's ever involved any kind of food substance. Or, you could, you know, excersize moderation when eating junk food. That could work too, I don't know.
In my council, girl scout cookies are currently $3.50 a box. About $1.00 of that goes to the bakers – the rest goes to local girl scouts (where local is your council, which vary in size depending on where you are). When I was last in GS (a few years ago), it was $0.65 directly to the troop, and between $0.10 and $0.25 to the girls in "cookie credits", which are good for stuff at the council store – handbooks, badges, uniforms, and other branded stuff. So, around $1.50 a box goes to the council. That pays the salaries of council employees, funds activities that the council sponsors, funds the summer camps (which is a huge piece of the council budget, at least here, as girl scout camp is cheap for girls and is heavily subsidized by council), etc.
And the cookies are tasty. No, you shouldn't eat a box of them in one sitting, but they're no worse than, say, Oreos.
Nice! I agree with everything in this post. And anyone who thinks the cookies are better than anything that you can get in the store for the same price doesn't have a very well-cultivated sense of taste.
your whole analysis is quite silly, these girls can sell a product, one that is ridiculously awesome, probably some of the best boxed cookies on the market, and make some money to fund their activities. it is basically a corporation paying people to sell their cookies, these people happen to be girl scouts, and these girl scouts happen to use the money for girl scout activities. its not some corporate plot to make you think you give a sh*t about girl scouts, because i for one, don't.
you are right, we should buy cookies that are bad for us AND go to big corporations rather than any portion of the money going to girl scouts. [admin note: expletive deleted] the girl scouts. The FACT is that few people will simply give money to their local girl scouts. That is just a fact. It is factual. Facts here. There is no way around that. If you don't like the cookies, don't buy them. Don't tell other people what to do.
And where is their headquarters supposed to be? in the middle of nowhere? are they supposed to have employees that hate their work and want to shoot their brains out because they get treated like government workers? yeah, that's the way to run an organization. perhaps they should all be volunteers and everyone in the world should voluntarily donate a portion of their paychecks to the girl scouts. try joining reality with us sometime.
Admin note: the previous commenter is an Assface. Sorry, I couldn't resist. That's the name he gave himself. Here's what Assface claims:
1) I'm recommending that people buy cookies from "big corporations."
2) There is no middle ground between maintaining one's office on 5th Avenue in Manhattan and "in the middle of nowhere.
3) The Girl Scouts are incapable of raising money by directly pitching their needs to members of the public.
4) If the Girl Scout executives can't live in a fancy part of town, they will "hate their work and want to shoot their brains out."
5) There's no middle ground between paying exhorbitant salaries and making everyone volunteers.
6) People will forever refuse to donate meaningfully to worthy causes without a quid pro quo.
Sorry, "Assface." We disagree on each of these points. Go eat some cookies and settle down.
Those girl scout cookies contain partially hydrogenated oils, very very bad for your arteries!
I'm pro-cookie. My single mom couldn't afford to send me to the fancypants summer camps all my friends went to when I was a kid, so I would usually sit at home, write letters to my faraway friends, and mope. My first and only summer camp experience was Girl Scout Camp, and it was incredible. I think it cost about $200 for a week (in the early nineties). The camp brought together girls from all kinds of backgrounds, and during our time there, we were more or less equal. The camps are subsidized with that dirty cookie money. Girl Scout Cookie sales are a well-organized, efficient, proven, and not totally un-fun way to make a lot of money so that girls can build self-esteem and become more interested and interesting women. Everybody benefits from that, right?
And why should girls have bake sales and make tinysmall abouts of money when they can be involved in business, get rich, and indulge girl scout cookie addicts like me?
Oh, and the cookies ARE especially delicious – not because they don't sell better cookies in the grocery store, but because of psychological fators. Limited availability, nostalgia, and the feeling that by eating them you are being charitable all make girl scout cookies special.
One last thing – I'm eating samoas right now as I type this – my mom mailed a case to my apartment in Japan. Yum, yum, yum! All you haters are missing out!
A lot of charities hire professional fund raisers, who run sweepstakes, telemarketing on their behalf. In Australia, I was surprised to hear that a community helicopter rescue was paying about 50% commission to the fund raiser.
geez, just buy the cookies or don't buy it. do we have to write a dissertation on everything nowadays?
For those who have commented that girl scout cookies have trans fats, that formerly was the case. Accordng to this information from the Girl Scout site, though, it is no longer true. http://www.girlscouts.org/program/gs_cookies/faqs…
To Rick James and others who believe that Girl Scouts are actually doing the work to sell their cookies: It is a rare Girl Scout cookie that is actually sold through the efforts of the girl, rather than through the efforts of her parents. In my considerable experience with Girl Scout Cookies, it is an act of great faith to believe that the girls are out there doing the footwork to "sell" those Do-si-dos.
To muaddib420: A dissertation of only 1,000 words? I've certainly seen longer dissertations.
Why write about this topic? Because "obvious" things are the best fodder for my subversive mind. That approach is common at this website. No one has you shackled here. You are excused to go buy more cookies.
To m3ggiesue and all others who cited alleged cost breakdowns without attributing sources: shame on you.
While I absolutely agree that to support a specific Girl Scout Troop you may be better off just handing the scout $5….but I disagree that only 45¢ goes to the local troop.
The cost of the cookies from our vendor is 83¢ per box. We receive approx. 55¢ per box profit which goes directly to our troop. Additionally, each girl receives cookie incentive money – 12¢ per box.
The balance ($1.50 goes to maintenance and upkeep of our council's two camps (which all troops are eligible to use for a nominal security deposit) as well as funding additional programs for the girls at the council level.
Furthermore, while I cannot speak for other parents or other troop leaders out there, I do know that we walk our scouts door-to-door with a little red wagon selling cookies in our local neighborhood.
Additionally, out of the 233 boxes that my daughter sold, I can say that she sold all except 40 of those boxes, through phone calls to her aunts and uncles, visits to the neighbors and through cookie booths…. My husband and I sold a total of 40 boxes at our offices.
And, believe it or not, she is very proud of her accomplishment….at 8 years old, she raised over $128 for her Girl Scout Troop funds…so that we may go to museums, camping and other special activities. She aslo raised $23 towards her own personal camp attendance…..
As a troop leader, I see tremendous value in setting and exceeding sales goals, budgeting profits towards activities and service projects and teaching the girls positive sales tactics…such as the value of a smile or "please" and "thank you" when selling cookies.
And, I see tremendous value in giving scouting opportunities to girls who would otherwise be unable to afford such activities….and if they attending a cookie booth can make these things possible….then so be it.
If children work to make an activity possible, they appreciate it more!
Sorry, you're correct. I work for Girl Scouts. That's directly from the horse's mouth. Usually the info is on each coucil's website, but a lot of that information has disappeared since most cookie sales have already ended for the year.
But trust me, we're nowhere near "exorbitant salaries." If you think that, you should come by and check out my neighborhood sometime. And I wish I could have gotten back to you sooner, but I don't have the luxury of affording internet at home. Getting a picture?
We're not overpaid fatties up at the council (though, as in any organization, some employees are definitely fat). And I can tell you that's there's no conspiracy in the cookies. Girls use the money to plan trips and go to camp and things. We really do give as much back to the girls as possible while maintaining a strong program.
On that note– Girl Scouts is currently undergoing an enormous restructuring to fix many of the inefficiencies you pointed out. We're combining councils and shedding some excess fat. I mean, an organization that's been around for 95 years was bound to carry some extra weight eventually, and now we're fixing it. We really are working toward a program that gives more back to the girls. Check out realignment at http://www.girlscouts.org
So you're saying I can get these cookies for 50 cents less than what I'm paying now if I cut out the girl scouts? How can I go about doing that. That would be a better article.
My daughter sells the cookies!
My daughter delivers the cookies!
I eat the cookies (thin mints)!
The site looks great ! Thanks for all your help ( past, present and future !)
People buy Girl Scout cookies for some other reason besides them being delicious? Crazy. Also. I plan to become a trans fat dealer as soon as it is outlawed completely.
I haven't read all the replies so I apologize if it's already been covered. Depending on the council, 45-55 cents a box goes directly to the troop. Part of the remaining money goes pays back the bakers that made the cookies for Girl Scouts. The rest stays in the individual council, it does not go to New York. Girl Scouts is a non profit organization. Most councils receive money from private coorporations and United Way, but if Girl Scouts had to soley rely on this the organization would fold. (Yes, I have seen the numbers) Most of the money that keeps all the individual councils running come from cookie sales. Yes, some of the money goes to paying council staff, maintaning camp sites so the girls have a safe place to camp, and other resources for both the girls and the leaders. Leaders must go though several training opportunities, receive background checks, etc. Girl Scout Councils also pay membership fees and program costs for girls who would not be in Girl Scouts otherwise.
As I'm sure you can tell, I am a Leader and have been for 7 years. Yes, at times I get a little tired at the emphasis on the Girl Scout cookie sale and I wish whole heartedly that United Way would donate as much to Girl Scouts as they do other organizations, such as the Boy Scouts. (United Way has many chapters, so some may, but I know for a fact that some give about half as much to GS as they do to BS.) I wish more companies would donate to GS, therefore relieving the pressure from the troop leaders and the girls. It is a sad state in America where little girls have to stand out in the cold selling cookies just so they can have an organization like Girl Scouts to be in, but oh well. But, if you feel compelled to just give a donation to a Girl Scout troop, that's appreciated too!
Here's something that hasn't been mentioned…the first Girl Scout cookies ever sold were homemade. During WWII when rations were placed on the main ingredients used to make cookies and other baked goods, the Girl Scouts started selling calendars to earn money for their troops and councils. They stopped with the cookies for a while after that. The complete history of Girl Scout cookies is on girlscouts.org.
I believe in the Girl Scout movement. So much so that I have started another troop for my stepdaughter after having been out of the program for over 10 years.
I'm pretty sure that we have restrictions placed on us as individual troops as far as accepting direct donations. These troop fund raising programs are designed to help the girls learn goal setting, character building, etc. as listed on the side of the cookie box.
Yes, my daughter's father and I did sell the majority of her cookies ourselve's because we live in a rural area and don't have next door neighbors. Also, we here in the midwest were nailed by a severe icestorm that caused us to loose a week of cookie selling. You know, you do what you gotta do. Our troop has 8 girls in it and they sold over 600 boxes. Our troop profits were a little over $300. That's a good chunk of money for our troop to work with. Ok, the downside of that is, I have one parent that still owes over $200 in cookie money. That is a major part of our troop profit. Yes, for those of you in the know, the council had to be paid there cut first, yes they are supposed to collect on our behalf, but I wish I knew how to get those parents to fork over the money for the cookies her daughter sold. As with anything, there are pros and cons to consider with everything. I loved this site though. I am in the process of writing a persuasive speech for a class and this had given me some arguments to work with. So, thanks!
For all those really interested in the financial picture of this business, I would suggest you go to guidestar.org and review the organizations 990. this yearly filing by the irs is required of all non-profits. I think you will be amazed at the result of this information.
A lot of thought here… several years ago, I coughed up the relatively small amount to be a lifetime member of Girl Scouts. I grew up in Scouts, know easily 100 songs by heart, went camping, went "to camp", worked on badges, etc. Several years ago, I became a Scout Leader, and was asked to be on a Council planning board in North Carolina. The Council office is SMALL, with a relatively skeletal staff of some of the most helpful people in the world. Out of that council came a wealth of activities that went far beyond anything our troop could have come up with alone. The issues I dealt with in the council meeting were definitely bureaucratic… but we worked them anyway… as volunteers. The Council paid for patches and badges and dues for kids who couldn't afford them (my ENTIRE troop). They handled insurance for trips (a very scary subject, trust me. Imagine being the scout leader telling mom and dad that susie-poo fell off of a horse and broke her nose…) The council staff negotiated all kinds of perks with different recreation and educational groups – amusement parks, nature centers, museums, etc. so that we could ALL go on ONE day at a cut rate. The Council subsidized day camps, "twilight camps" AND overnight camps. And then, there's the training. Every scout leader goes through at least an hour of training on leading, and there is also training on understanding girl behavior at the different ages. There is training on every aspect of camping, and a troop can't go camping without a leader who has the necessary training. Some Councils can offer discounted CPR and First Aid training. You can't go camping without someone who has this training either.
Before I became involved in council business, I tended to complain about how little money the "troop" got from cookie sales. And please, don't get me wrong. I hate cookie season, I hate cookie pushing, I hate cookie goal setting, I hate selliing cookies FOR the Scouts. But on the other hand, I've also worked booth sales. I've seen girls learn how to handle real money. And I've seen the feel-good pride they experience from a successful booth sale. So – anyone who says Scouts don't sell the cookies, clearly hasn't been cornered at the grocery store!!!
Everyone has a right to their own opinion, and I'm not trying to justify selling fattening food. HOWEVER, I do know that teaching the girls some business skills has benefits. And sadly, the Councils are completely dependent on cookie sales to be able to provide a wide range of high quality experiences for all of the girls in an area, including girls who are impoverished, or disabled.
I don't really see easy fixes to the idea of finding another way to bring about the benefits that come from cookie sales, without the downsides.
But, I think you'd find that the GIRL Scouting organization is very, very open to positive suggestions.