Today, an acquaintance (I’ll call her “Laura”) asked me if I would buy some Girl Scout cookies from her daughter’s troop. I told her “No thank you.”
It’s not that I don’t enjoy eating Girl Scout cookies (I do enjoy Thin Mints and Peanut Butter Sandwich Cookies). It’s not that I generally oppose the activities of Girl Scouts. I approve of much of what Girl Scouts do.
Here’s what triggered this post. Laura told me that the average box of cookies sells for three dollars and that the average profit for each box of cookies is only fifty cents. Hmmmm.
Therefore, I can support their Girl Scouts to the same extent by handing $5 directly to the local troop or by buying $30 worth of cookies. Unless you think that eating cookies is an especially good thing, it makes much more sense to simply hand the local troop $5. Then again, eating cookies, especially a lot of cookies, is not a good thing. Cookies consist largely of refined carbohydrates and sugars. These are exactly the kinds of ingredients that invite obesity. Are the Girl Scouts concerned about obesity? Very much so (so am I), yet they continue to rely on cookie sales to fund their activities.
But let’s go back to the money for a moment. If you click here, you can see it stated that “all of the revenue” from cookie sales “stays with the local Girl Scout council that sponsors the sale.” The official site carefully points out that individual troops receive “from 12-17% of the purchase price of each box sold.” There are various important numbers that the site does not provide, however. For instance, is $.50 per box (the amount indicated to me by my acquaintance) the average amount of proceeds per box sold (as Laura indicated)? If so, the 12-17% of the purchase price of each box sold amounts to $.45 per box, which means that most of the proceeds go to the local troop. If true, it would be commendable. But we don’t know, because the Girl Scout organization does not specify how much profit is involved in the sale of each box of cookies.
All of this makes me wonder, because the Girl Scout organization is based in the middle of one of the highest rent districts in the world, 420 5th Ave in Manhattan. That’s where 400 employees work for the Girl Scout organization. But nowhere on the site will you find anything about the sales information I just mentioned, or other things I wonder, such as the salaries and perks of these 400 employees. Wouldn’t it be nice to know how much money it takes to run that fancy headquarters? How about a pie chart showing the sources of that money? Nowhere will you find the amount of that annual cookie profit money that flows back to the Girl Scout headquarters from determined efforts of little girls. Wouldn’t that be interesting to know? I suspect that, indirectly, cookie money flows back to the Girl Scout headquarters at a brisk rate. I’d be interested in knowing for sure, though, especially since my client has told me that the local troops have to purchase their own badges and other supplies with their own money. Much of what local Girl Scout troops do is not subsidized by cookie profits. I don’t know how much aggregate cookie profit is generated each year, because that is not on the website either. Maybe those cookie-revenue numbers are just too big to fit on the official Girl Scout webpage!
I have occastionally supported local Girl Scouting activity, despite my concerns with the financially opaque corporate hierarchy. I’ve decided, though, that my solution will now be to offer a direct donation to the local troop, just as I mentioned at the top of this post. Five dollars handed to a little girl who approaches you to sell cookies is the equivalent of buying $30 worth of cookies, and you can rest assured that all of that money will stay with the local troop. If you really want to get good bang for the buck and you usually buy $30 for the cookies, just hand the full $30 to local troop–that’s like buying $180 worth of cookies. In the process, everyone will be healthier and the local troop will be flush with cash to spend on those badges and other supplies that the national organization refuses to buy for them.
The Girl Scout cookie phenomenon raises an interesting issue about the way Americans think of charities. Why is it that people insist on getting something back for themselves in order to donate money to allegedly good causes? The Girl Scout cookie phenomenon is a classic case of this need for a quid pro quo. If someone really believed in the Girl Scouts, they shouldn’t need to receive cookies in return for supporting the Girl Scouts. Rather, they would just hand the local troop some money (as I’ve suggested above).
This problem (the need for a quid pro quo when soliciting for charities), is not peculiar to Girl Scouts. It’s everywhere you look. Almost every institutional charity offers stuff to people who donate. Mugs, T-shirts, videos, CDs, plaques, special access to celebrities, umbrellas, admissions to amusements, paperweights, inscribed souvenirs, admission to concerts or other special events.
Sometimes an organization will invite you to turn down any sort of gift. Kudos for those people who do so, those people who realize that demanding a gift in return for their contribution effectively reduces their contribution. They realize that those mugs, T-shirts and cookies are not free. And furthermore, who really needs more stuff of that sort?
All of this makes me wonder what kind of people we’ve become that so many of us insist on getting substantial amounts of stuff back in order to “contribute” to charities. I would suspect we’ve reached new levels of proficiency at being rampant consumers. See here and here .
Admittedly, this need for a quid pro quo is nothing new. After all, people were selling indulgences hundreds of years ago. But now, it is also much more visible and so widely accepted. It makes me frustrated enough to go eat half a box of Thin Mints. If only I had bought those cookies . . .
I just came across this post, and it is extremely apposite given the recent 'news' that Obama's administration is considering eliminating the tax-exempt status for charitable deductions.
I was at a neighborhood dinner party, where many of my neighbors were complaining loudly and vociferously that they would be reducing their charitable giving if they didn't get the tax break. I though, WTF?
I give to charity in mostly many small ways.
I give $5 to $10 here and there whenever the situation presents itself (I also give a donation instead of a purchase to the Girl Scouts).
My wife and I donate clothes and household goods directly to shelters. We refuse to accept a tax receipt (it means the organization can use a much lower valuation on the donation, improving their fiscal ability to raise other needed funds and stay legal). We buy most stuff discount anyway, so any receipt would be bogus – the retail price is much greater than what we typically would pay!
We donate food and consumables directly to food banks (when we shop at costco each month, we buy extra bulk items for the bank – and drop them off on the way home. Why more peaople don;t do this I don;t know. It's easy, it's quick, and it's valuable)
I don't claim any of these 'contributions' on my taxes. I don't see the point.
I earn enough that my taxes aren't the lowest – but I have enough deductions from mortgage relief, etc., that I don't need to nickel & dime. It also makes my life easier during tax season.
I also don't feel the need to proclaim my giving to all & sundry (you all simply know that I give – you still don't know how much or how little!).
In the end I agree with Erich. Direct contribution is always better and more valuable than 'leveraged' contributions.
Just to recap our fifth grade troop's cookie sales this year. 14 girls sold over 2000 boxes of cookies (and yes, a majority of those were girl-sold – in our troop, at least, it is not "rare" for a girl to sell a box herself). They ended up making over $2400 in profit, and they just got back yesterday from a trip to Savannah which was completely paid for by their cookie profits from the last couple of years. Now, let's see, we could have hoped for 480 nice people to give us $5 each, but it's not like we can (or would) go door to door begging for cash. We do appreciate those of you who make cash donations at cookie booth sales. We appreciate those of you who donate cookies to the military or other worthy groups because you don't want to eat the cookies. We appreciate those of you who buy one box from every Girl Scout who knocks at your door. We appreciate those of you who don't buy boxes of cookies from our girls, but who are polite and don't slam the door in their faces, or shout "NO!" in their faces. I've been the leader of a troop selling cookies for over 10 years, and I have seen all of these things. In general, though, we find that people are very supportive of our girls, and that's because they are polite, and respectful, and all of the other things that Girl Scouts teaches them. Sure parents could teach those things, too, and I'm sure many of our parents do! We just give them some extra education and it pays off. My older daughter's troop just finished their Silver Award. They renovated a playground at a local housing authority community and did it all with their cookie money and some material donations from places like Home Depot and Lowe's. All of the troops I know, and their girls, put their cookie money to good use. It's the easiest way to raise a lot of money (people like the cookies, what can we say?) while still letting girls know that their parents don't have to pay for everything they do – they can earn their own way. You can bet our little fifth graders in Savannah enjoyed the trip that much more for having earned it themselves. I would love to believe that people would just donate to Girl Scouts because they think it's a good organization, but I think that's not realistic. If people didn't see Girl Scouts, they would never just donate to it on their own. When was the last time anybody looked up a local troop leader and said, "Hey, let me give you some money?" Doesn't happen. We thank you all anyway for all the reasons I stated above. Whether you buy from Girl Scouts or not is your choice, and we respect the right people have to their own opinions and beliefs. Me? I'm off to eat one or two Samoas. Yes, I still have some because it's not healthy to eat them all at once.
Any leader of a troop can give you the breakdown of what cookie money is used for. First of all girls who sell cookies can use this to attend Summer Camp (sell 300 bxs of cookies and you go to camp for a week). Secound the money is used to help those who require financial aid. Thirdly this money is used to pay for activities given to the girls by the councils and also to maintain the camp sites the troops use.
stop drinking the kool-aid. Of course donating to the troop directly is a much more efficient and helpful way to go about giving your money. Girl scout cookies are awesome! Either buy brand name cookies at the super market for $4, which gives the troop nothing, or purchase girl scout cookies when they come around, enjoy the deliciousness, and the local troop gets .50 worst case scenario. Why not buy cookies and exercise and eat correctly, while donating a couple spare bucks too when the girls come around? Oh that might be harder than complaining.
Geez…finally!!! You are a 100% right. I couldn’t believe when i actually heard these complaints. Yes because this is what people need to be focused on in our lovely world. Unbelievable!!
Well said. They are Girl Scout Cookies for God’s sake. Why must people try to make everything so dman political!!
In our council, we sell cookies for $4 with $.75 profit to the troop per box. Of the cookie profit to the council, 90% goes toward girl programs and 10% to admin costs. Girls know that the money they earn with cookie sales benefit them for troop supplies/events/trips.
Jodi: How do you know that 90% of the profit goes straight to the benefit of the girls?
One thing you don't know is we return that money to our community by buying items for people in need!!!
Jamie: My argument is that we should give cash to the girls (I have), to keep the money local. Then the troops themselves can give more money to people in need. BYPASS Girl Scout Headquarters on Madison Avenue and give cash to the little girls so that they can buy (or donate to the poor) locally. If you give $5 cash to the local troop, it's like buying $40 of cookies without eating all of the empty calories.
As long as Girl Scout headquarters is located on high-priced Fifth Avenue, it means that the Girl Scout executives are wasting lots of money. Circumvent the money-wasters.
And to all of you apologists, tell me where I can find the amount of salaries and benefits being paid to each of the top-earning 100 Girl Scout employees. Show us the organization's tax returns and other dependable documents (not some list you just post on the Internet) so that all of us can see that Girl Scouts USA is spending all that money frugally and wisely.
I'm a Girl Scout Leader in Minnesota at the Brownie level. What you say is true … we sell for $3.50 a box and only get 50 cents.
I didn't read the entire megaparagraph above, but I was interested that it stated "over 2000 boxes of cookies," "making over $2400 in profit." FWIW, I don't believe that's possible in any council given the rates of return.
Our council sells the cookies for $3.50 a box. Troops can choose a lower rate of return with incentives (shirts, pens, etc) for sales levels or a higher rate of return with proceeds only. The more cases sold, the higher the return, the higher per case profit.
Returns start at 41.67 cents per box for low case sales and opting-in to the "prizes." The highest proceed-only return available is for 400+ cases (4800 boxes) at $8.35 per case. That's a return of 69.58 cents per box.
I too am a leader and a past Girl Scout who sold back in the 70\’s. I will say my Girl LOVE selling cookies especially at the booths. They really have fun. I do see how much they learn about counting cash back and unfortunately what it feels like when people cheat them or steal cookies. Yes, it happens. Can you believe it?
Our cookies (2009 and 2010) sell for $4.00 of which we keep 65 cents per box with incentives and 70 cents with no incentives, but each girl must sell 150 boxes. Also girls get cookie credits to use toward activities and camp in addition to earning camp if enough boxes are sold. Example: Girl sells 200 boxes she gets a bunch of incentives including jouranals, lip gloss, stuffed animals, pens and bandanas and also receives $45.00 in cookie credits to use for events such as horsecamp, girl scout camp
science or zoo overnight events. Also, and most importantly the girls earn patches that they wear proudly that indicates they sold cookies and did a great job! Very important to them!!
From what we are told this is the breakdown averages that we received per box:
.67 for troop
1.90 girl programs
.25 opportunity fund
.25 recognitions
.06 service unit grants
.87 cost of cookies
For me it doesn\’t look like they are lining their pockets with cookie money. I think other proceeds may be running the office on Madison Ave.
Please, please buy cookies, but if you don\’t want cookies or just don\’t feel right about it please please donate to your local troops!!! Yes every bit counts and I would welcome every 5 dollar bill we get Our girls are always working toward something fun and for service projects.
And……… Thank you so very, very much for any contribution you make!!! We operate on next to nothing, leaders do not get paid and spend much of their own money to keep the troops going!!!
Happy Cookie Buying or Donating to everyone.
I’m a new leader and I would like to ask you for some clarification on the cookie sale proceeds. I know every council area is different but I’d like to know exactly how yours works. When you say you get 65 cents per box, is that from every box the troop sells or the average number of boxes the troop sells per girl. I’m being told the following:
Troop of 10 girls each sells 100 boxes, total troop sales of 1000 boxes with 50 cents a box profit
Our troop average is 100 boxes per girl so our troop will profit $50
I can’t believe that with $3750 in sales that our troop will only get $50 in proceeds.
Does this sound crazy to you?
Two little girl scouts came to my door today, their mother staying back on the sidewalk. The little girls gave their pitch to "support the girl scouts." I offered them $5 cash. At this point, the mother had walked up to the door and was looking concerned. I told the threesome that I knew that they only get 50 cents per box of cookies sold, and that my family didn't want to buy a bunch of cookies in order to make a donation, though I wanted to support the scouts. I told her that giving them $5 was like buying 10 boxes of cookies. The mom was extremely hesitant.
I said, "I know that this probably doesn't fit into your accounting scheme, but it's money that can help your local troop, and I didn't want this money going to pay for the expensive Manhattan headquarters and the high-earning girl scout executives. The mom rolled her eyes and said, "I know what you mean."
I repeated that I wanted to hand them $5 that would stay local and help the girl scouts. "I'm sure you have need for some money to get things done right here at your local troop."
The mom waved me off. She said, "No thanks. This is supposed to be an learning experience to teach the girls how to sell their cookies."
She walked away rather than take my $5.
I'm such an ogre . . .
Both the CEO of the girl scouts and the boy scouts had over half a million dollars in salary last year. This is part of where where your dues and fudraisers go!
Wow, the incentives are lip gloss, stuffed animals and pens? That'll teach them about how to be responsible adults…again, that means they're not doing for charity but for incentives. I just bought some of these cookies when I swore never to because my neighbor, the mother, was hounding me daily and I thought what the heck, my husband is deployed and they're going to him but had I known that I could donate and save money by buying cookies at the store, I would have opted for that. Never buying them again!
Just for the record the girls actually don’t get any incentives anymore (at least not in my area). The girls receive ten cents per box they sell that goes a a gift card called Cookie Dough. The girls can use it to pay for camp,uniforms, or any activity through council. They do have other things that the girls can purchase but most girls use it for the other things listed above.
They claim the money the troop gets goes to pay for troop outings for all in the troop. Hooey! What they actually do is reward the girls who sold with the money but punish the girls who do not sell the cookies and make them pay for outings. At first glance, you would say what is wrong with that? But if you ask your accountant about this practice he will laugh and say it's a clear violation of their 501 (c) 3 Tax Exempt status. I think the IRS needs to examine this and uncover this scam.
Our money we earn does go for all girls. There is no individual benefit for the girl who sells the most and no punishment for who sells the least (other than incentives from council which I have no control over..I even work the numbers to make sure everyone gets something). No one pays more or less for outings based on cookies sales. We earn this money as a troop, for the troop. I'm sorry to hear some troops don't work it that way. I say this with it being my daughter who always sells the most; sometimes double of the next closest girl.
How many boxes of cookies does my 7 year old need to sell to pay the Girl Scout CEO's salary? You figure it out. Here are the CEO's details from the BBB's charity review website.
Chief Executive : Kathy Cloninger, Chief Executive Officer
Compensation*: $526,999
I'm ticked. My wife is the troop treasurer, (our first year) we have a small troop with poor families and they worked their tails off selling over $2500 dollars worth of cookies. I was shocked to see the troop bank account depleted by the council and the troop left with only $370 bucks for all that work. Now they are talking about having to do a real fundraiser in order to earn more money. We are not signing up for girl scouts again next year! I can think of many activities to do with my girls that does not require several months of child labor to pay for it. After all, I am an Eagle Scout!
Agreed as a troop leader. I will spend countless hours on this and am not looking forward to doing it, when quite honestly I could probably work at a real job for 3 hours and provide all of the profits to my troop directly. However, I am hoping that the girls learn something in all of this, (sales, marketing skills, competition, teamwork). That is what girl scouts is all about!!
I have a better answer..buy the GS nuts in the fall. It's a little known fundraiser usually coinsides with school starting, school fundraisers and the like..but, the TROOP! not council gets 25% of the sale. So if you buy a $5 can of nuts the troop gets $1.25…much better profit margin for the girls and who doesn't love a nut?
im a girl scout and i would like to point out that some cookies onkyhave 32 calories like the lemon chalets, trefoils and do si dos and then the rest are choclaty flavor and also some peope donate boxes to soldiers like in 1 area i sold48 boxes and i got 156.50 for it.
one area they said they never get scouts so they bought 6 packages and what about boy scouts they sell popcorn which can 1. choke you 2 make your breath smell 2 ( yes like SOME girl scout cookies) make you gain weight but still people buy them
I understand your cynicism in general. I have several lawyers in my family and find that for the industry it is a prerequisite. I am in work f/t supporting the aerospace industry. But I do know the Girl Scouts. I started a Brownie troop, put my youngest through the Daisy program, and am now the "Cookie Mom." I have a strong mathematics background and I think I can help you with this accounting conundrum.
Here is the breakdown for the 2010/2011 cost of 1 box of cookies (the cost went up this selling season):
– $0.65 Troop proceeds (will vary if the troop decides to go with incentive or cash; younger girls choose the incentive program; if the cash program is used, the troop will earn $0.70 per box)
– $2.04 Direct services to girls and adults such as camping service, training for adult volunteers, FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE FOR GIRLS, etc. If you are familiar with SHARE, the Girl Scouts are committed that ALL girls be able to participate in the program regardless of finances
– $1.04 Cost of product, promotion, and incentives as well as debt and transportation
– $0.23 Administrative costs
Girls do not have to participate in the cookie sale, but it is a significant fund raiser for the troop as well as for the organization (training new leaders and paying the way for girls who could not otherwise participate). My daughter's troop is using the proceeds NOT for girl activities, but to prepare a dinner for 60 people at a local shelter.
Is this not worth buying a box of cookies?
Our society has become extraordinarily judgmental, often holding baseless opinions. Sweeping generalizations are too frequently wrong. It is too easy to find fault. Try volunteering yourself; it may change your outlook on many things.
S Donahue: You've suggested that my opinion is "baseless." Where are some links to substantiate your numbers? And, truly, what is this "direct services" component? Where is it really broken down? I figure, why trust the big organization to give it back to the girls? Why not just give the money to the local girls?
Further, how is it that you have judged me to be "cynical" and "judgmental" when I am suggesting that I have given money directly to girl scouts who have come to my door, and I'd rather the money go to the local troops rather than paying for high priced rent and high administrative salaries?
Further, how is it that my full-time profession has anything to do with this, especially when more than a few people associated with local troops have weighed in at this site with similar concerns?
Thank you! One important element of Girl Scouting is service. Cookie sales teach many things. They are not intended to be the ultimate troop fundraiser. While they do raise some money for the troop, they also teach sales skills and they provide money for council activities, such as camps, and scholarships that allow girls to attend these camps. Girl Scouts know that they are providing a service by contributing to the good of the girls in the entire council. The intention has never been just to reward themselves. A good lesson in today’s times–and a lesson many people no longer learn. Go Girl Scouts!
I usually buy about 4 boxes of cookies every year from my co-worker's daughter – which I know is not that many. This year I'm giving a $20 donation to her troop instead. I don't see how that could be a bad thing, but I still feel guilty not buying the dang cookies. I guess I'm worried how my co-worker will react – that she'll think I'm a Girl Scout cookie hater or something. Anyway, I checked the BBB's charity report for Girl Scouts and it lists their administrative costs at around 8% of funds raised. But it also says their CEO makes $520k a year (latest report was from 2009)! Wow that's alot! My brain tells me to care more about what the organization does for girls than what their CEO makes – but looking at that number makes those cookies hard to swallow. I don't donate to any charity that has administrative costs over 10%. GSoA seems to meet that criteria by the BBB's website's report so I'm happy to give. But telling the little girl who came to my house today that I was going to give a donation instead of buying cookies felt really crappy. And I love the cookies too – my waist doesn't but my face does! I will miss my Thin Mint indulgence this year, and I don't know if I made the right choice to give a donation in lieu.
What about the smile on a little girl's face when you buy her cookies? Isn't that worth something.
BTW I do agree with you about the donation. Once I feel I've bought enough cookies, I just give them the money, so I guess I'm splitting the difference.
Erich: I think you're coming off as too much of a curmudgeon in opposing Girl Scout cookie sales. I think you're also missing the point.
Sure, selling the cookies is about generating revenue for the troops to pay for their activities, as the district overhead.
But you fail to see the ancillary benefits of learning to sell stuff. For the past seven years I have helped my sons sell Cub Scout and Boy Scout popcorn. No doubt about it, it's a giant pain in the neck. But selling popcorn helps my boys, who by nature are very shy, learn one of the most important skills in life: selling themselves. In other words, being able to walk up to strangers and persuading them to engage in a meaningful activity: i.e.,reaching for their wallets and checkbooks and giving them money for the wares my progeny are vending. It is a skill they will need to tap into often, and with growing sophistication, as they navigate this mighty world; a skill essential to landing friendships, internships, jobs, and life partners.
As an aside, I must confess deep fatherly pride during the times when I watched as my son — my son! my spawn! — pulled off a masterful sales job on the porch of stranger's home and convinced the lady of the house, using the tools of logic, charm and wit and his pint-sized good looks, to part with her hard-won greenbacks.
Popcorn sales also teach my boys another important skill: meaningful competition. Sure, sure, some overambitious parents wreck that ethos by selling $2,000 worth of popcorn to their friends and then pretending their 7-year-old son achieved this feat. But my boys are smart enough to understand when that happens.
My job as a dad is help them understand that life can be very unfair and that who your parents are often makes a huge difference in where you end up, independent of talent or brains (in this regard I use the example of George W. Bush as a cautionary tale), but also doing what I can to guard against the early onset of cynicism (though their love of The Simpsons may make that a futile goal).
Finally, don't forget these sales efforts generate many childhood memories and, yes, even opportunities for parents and children to bond away from a computer or TV screen. Yes, Girl Scout cookies and Boy Scout popcorn are way overpriced, but both items taste good. Still, I for one can state they have provided my family with many, many good memories. And what the hell — isn't that what we as parents are charged with doing in large part, creating good memories for our kids?
Yes, by all means, continue giving money directly to your favorite Girl Scout troop. But please re-think your negative opinions about Girl Scout cookie sales.
i am a teenage girl scout, and I agree with Erich Vieth! I know i would much rather get donations and not sell ANY COOKIES!!!! i really do not like selling girl scout cookies, but we still need money to do things. So… GIVE DONATIONS!!!! *please 🙂
I gave a $20 donation again this year. The Girl Scout seemed very disappointed. But, I felt even better this year about giving the direct donation (rather than buying cookies) than last year.
On the other hand, now that anti-woman and anti-rights groups are boycotting the cookies, perhaps it is time to buy some:
Eat more cookies, teach liars a lesson
I can’t believe some people have actually turned selling gs cookies into this. Get a life. Its to keep young girls out of trouble and keep them busy. Its a simple contest. Geez people there are so many problems way more important than this. Leave them alone!!