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	Comments on: Makeup is the new girdle.	</title>
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	<description>Human Animals at the Crossroads of Science, Religion, Media and Culture</description>
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		<title>
		By: Erika Price		</title>
		<link>https://dangerousintersection.org/2011/05/16/makeup-is-the-new-girdle/comment-page-1/#comment-85231</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Erika Price]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 May 2011 11:32:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=17890#comment-85231</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Erich: Thanks for the thoughtful comment. I think no-makeup looks &#039;better&#039; on most people, too. The actresses in your last link look fantastic- fresh-faced and natural. Bare faces have much more &#039;character&#039;,I think.
 

 
And I&#039;m so glad you mentioned Jane Goodall! I just did a cursory Google image search and was &lt;a href=&quot;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;reminded of what a fox she was (and is). &lt;/a&gt; She still looks beautiful now! I really appreciate that she can look so lovely without fussing much over her appearance- I even like casual beauty of her white and gray hair in its signature ponytail (though hair is another long discussion for another day). ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Erich: Thanks for the thoughtful comment. I think no-makeup looks &#039;better&#039; on most people, too. The actresses in your last link look fantastic- fresh-faced and natural. Bare faces have much more &#039;character&#039;,I think.</p>
<p>And I&#039;m so glad you mentioned Jane Goodall! I just did a cursory Google image search and was <a href="" rel="nofollow">reminded of what a fox she was (and is). </a> She still looks beautiful now! I really appreciate that she can look so lovely without fussing much over her appearance- I even like casual beauty of her white and gray hair in its signature ponytail (though hair is another long discussion for another day). </p>
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		<title>
		By: Erich Vieth		</title>
		<link>https://dangerousintersection.org/2011/05/16/makeup-is-the-new-girdle/comment-page-1/#comment-85111</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Erich Vieth]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 May 2011 00:06:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=17890#comment-85111</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Erika:  I much enjoyed your observations.  Over the years I&#039;ve gotten to know several women who engage in an extended (more than 30 min) morning make-up session who have come to trust me enough that they would allow me to see what they look like without the makeup.  I have always been staggered to see that I&#039;ve always preferred the no-makeup version.  I don&#039;t claim to speak for all men; I know guys who insist that women always look &#034;better&#034; when they use some makeup and they &#034;use it well.&#034;  
 

 
I do wonder how much of that &#034;preference&#034; for makeup has been ground into our psyches by advertisements and tradition, however.   You just don&#039;t see any ads on TV saying &#034;You look great the way you are, without any makeup&#034; or &#034;You look concocted when you slather makeup on your beautiful natural skin.&#034;  
 

 
You&#039;re correct that many business-people are increasingly avoiding formal dress at work.  I work as a lawyer, and my firm is informal (meaning no need for a suit or even a sport coat or a tie) every day that you don&#039;t need to go to court.  You WILL need these things in court, however, at least most courts.  I have seen judges scold attorneys for failing to wear a suit and tie, threatening to have them thrown out of the courtroom as a matter of &#034;respect.&#034; 
 

 
You article points to the elephant in the room.  To the extent that cosmetics are heavily advertised, they are sending a message that women are imperfect and shameful to the extent that they are not plastered over with chemicals.   I&#039;m waiting for the day when I see commercials (using Billy Joel&#039;s &#034;Just the Way You Are&#034; as a soundtrack) urging that there is no need for makeup (or high heels or fancy clothing) and featuring some famous spokeswomen such as &#034;The Virgin Mary,&#034;  and Jane Goodall, who (I&#039;ll confess) looked mighty fetching in photos taken out in the jungle, where I assume that there she didn&#039;t wear makeup. &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.wildchimpanzees.org/media/photo_gallery_jpg/goodall_26.jpg&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.wildchimpanzees.org/media/photo_galler...&lt;/a&gt; 
 

 
Here&#039;s one other thing to watch out for.  Some sites &#034;catch&#034; celebrities without makeup, and hold up those photos to compare to their photos where they did wear makeup.  Beware that many of these makeup-less photos were taken in less than ideal lighting, whereas the makeup photos are often taken in better lit circumstances.  I&#039;ll end by providing a link to various covers of Elle featuring beautiful women without makeup. &lt;a href=&quot;http://shine.yahoo.com/channel/beauty/yay-french-elles-amazing-no-makeup-issue-and-why-american-mags-need-to-step-it-up-446538&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://shine.yahoo.com/channel/beauty/yay-french-...&lt;/a&gt; ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Erika:  I much enjoyed your observations.  Over the years I&#039;ve gotten to know several women who engage in an extended (more than 30 min) morning make-up session who have come to trust me enough that they would allow me to see what they look like without the makeup.  I have always been staggered to see that I&#039;ve always preferred the no-makeup version.  I don&#039;t claim to speak for all men; I know guys who insist that women always look &quot;better&quot; when they use some makeup and they &quot;use it well.&quot;  </p>
<p>I do wonder how much of that &quot;preference&quot; for makeup has been ground into our psyches by advertisements and tradition, however.   You just don&#039;t see any ads on TV saying &quot;You look great the way you are, without any makeup&quot; or &quot;You look concocted when you slather makeup on your beautiful natural skin.&quot;  </p>
<p>You&#039;re correct that many business-people are increasingly avoiding formal dress at work.  I work as a lawyer, and my firm is informal (meaning no need for a suit or even a sport coat or a tie) every day that you don&#039;t need to go to court.  You WILL need these things in court, however, at least most courts.  I have seen judges scold attorneys for failing to wear a suit and tie, threatening to have them thrown out of the courtroom as a matter of &quot;respect.&quot; </p>
<p>You article points to the elephant in the room.  To the extent that cosmetics are heavily advertised, they are sending a message that women are imperfect and shameful to the extent that they are not plastered over with chemicals.   I&#039;m waiting for the day when I see commercials (using Billy Joel&#039;s &quot;Just the Way You Are&quot; as a soundtrack) urging that there is no need for makeup (or high heels or fancy clothing) and featuring some famous spokeswomen such as &quot;The Virgin Mary,&quot;  and Jane Goodall, who (I&#039;ll confess) looked mighty fetching in photos taken out in the jungle, where I assume that there she didn&#039;t wear makeup. <a href="http://www.wildchimpanzees.org/media/photo_gallery_jpg/goodall_26.jpg" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://www.wildchimpanzees.org/media/photo_galler" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.wildchimpanzees.org/media/photo_galler</a>&#8230; </p>
<p>Here&#039;s one other thing to watch out for.  Some sites &quot;catch&quot; celebrities without makeup, and hold up those photos to compare to their photos where they did wear makeup.  Beware that many of these makeup-less photos were taken in less than ideal lighting, whereas the makeup photos are often taken in better lit circumstances.  I&#039;ll end by providing a link to various covers of Elle featuring beautiful women without makeup. <a href="http://shine.yahoo.com/channel/beauty/yay-french-elles-amazing-no-makeup-issue-and-why-american-mags-need-to-step-it-up-446538" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://shine.yahoo.com/channel/beauty/yay-french-" rel="nofollow ugc">http://shine.yahoo.com/channel/beauty/yay-french-</a>&#8230; </p>
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		<title>
		By: Ben		</title>
		<link>https://dangerousintersection.org/2011/05/16/makeup-is-the-new-girdle/comment-page-1/#comment-84699</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ben]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 May 2011 18:39:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=17890#comment-84699</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I think that make-up, while being a time waster if used every day, does actually help a woman attract attention. The question is whether that is the kind of attention she wants. After we met, I asked my girlfriend to wear less make up, that she was beautiful without it, the irony being that I might never have noticed her if she hadn&#039;t been wearing it. She was talented at it, but it still took about 30 minutes every day.
 

 
Then there is the workplace, women are often &#034;expected&#034; to be feminine looking, not really fair. ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that make-up, while being a time waster if used every day, does actually help a woman attract attention. The question is whether that is the kind of attention she wants. After we met, I asked my girlfriend to wear less make up, that she was beautiful without it, the irony being that I might never have noticed her if she hadn&#039;t been wearing it. She was talented at it, but it still took about 30 minutes every day.</p>
<p>Then there is the workplace, women are often &quot;expected&quot; to be feminine looking, not really fair. </p>
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		<title>
		By: Erika Price		</title>
		<link>https://dangerousintersection.org/2011/05/16/makeup-is-the-new-girdle/comment-page-1/#comment-84689</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Erika Price]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 May 2011 11:10:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=17890#comment-84689</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[That&#039;s a good point, projekt. Makeup serves two main purposes: concealment of flaws, which I focused on, but also ornamentation. Jewelry isn&#039;t going anywhere, so decorative eyeliner and shadow and the like will probably persist too. But fancy, decorative makeup is not worn daily or considered mandatory- like nice jewelry, it&#039;s something you don for special occasions. I think a basic daily makeup regimen is on the way out, while fun &#034;special occasion&#034; makeup will probably continue. Thanks for raising that distinction.
 

 
Brynn: Also a great point, and a good big-picture reason for people to root for makeup&#039;s obsolescence. There&#039;s also the microenvironmental and ethical effects of makeup: most cosmetic products are still tested on animals. I support animal testing to determine the safety of medical products, but a new shade or blush doesn&#039;t seem worth the torture of thousands of rabbits and mice. ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#039;s a good point, projekt. Makeup serves two main purposes: concealment of flaws, which I focused on, but also ornamentation. Jewelry isn&#039;t going anywhere, so decorative eyeliner and shadow and the like will probably persist too. But fancy, decorative makeup is not worn daily or considered mandatory- like nice jewelry, it&#039;s something you don for special occasions. I think a basic daily makeup regimen is on the way out, while fun &quot;special occasion&quot; makeup will probably continue. Thanks for raising that distinction.</p>
<p>Brynn: Also a great point, and a good big-picture reason for people to root for makeup&#039;s obsolescence. There&#039;s also the microenvironmental and ethical effects of makeup: most cosmetic products are still tested on animals. I support animal testing to determine the safety of medical products, but a new shade or blush doesn&#039;t seem worth the torture of thousands of rabbits and mice. </p>
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		<title>
		By: Brynn Jacobs		</title>
		<link>https://dangerousintersection.org/2011/05/16/makeup-is-the-new-girdle/comment-page-1/#comment-84687</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brynn Jacobs]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 May 2011 09:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=17890#comment-84687</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Erika:
 

 
Kudos on ditching the unnecessary makeup regimen.  I think it makes for good psychological health, as you note.  Increasingly, we are learning that it also makes for better physical health.  Erich has pointed to the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ewg.org/skindeep/#&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Environmental Working Group&#039;s database&lt;/a&gt; on potentially dangerous chemicals that are included with cosmetics, and a recent (admittedly unscientific) &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/306788&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;report from Canada&lt;/a&gt; found alarming levels of heavy metals and other toxins in makeup. ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Erika:</p>
<p>Kudos on ditching the unnecessary makeup regimen.  I think it makes for good psychological health, as you note.  Increasingly, we are learning that it also makes for better physical health.  Erich has pointed to the <a href="http://www.ewg.org/skindeep/#" rel="nofollow">Environmental Working Group&#039;s database</a> on potentially dangerous chemicals that are included with cosmetics, and a recent (admittedly unscientific) <a href="http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/306788" rel="nofollow">report from Canada</a> found alarming levels of heavy metals and other toxins in makeup. </p>
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