<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0" xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/" xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom" xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/" xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/" > <channel> <title> Comments on: People bringing guns to locations of Obama speeches. NRA: no comment </title> <atom:link href="https://dangerousintersection.org/2009/08/17/people-bringing-guns-to-locations-of-obama-speeches-nra-no-comment/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /> <link>https://dangerousintersection.org/2009/08/17/people-bringing-guns-to-locations-of-obama-speeches-nra-no-comment/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=people-bringing-guns-to-locations-of-obama-speeches-nra-no-comment&utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=people-bringing-guns-to-locations-of-obama-speeches-nra-no-comment</link> <description>Human Animals at the Crossroads of Science, Religion, Media and Culture</description> <lastBuildDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 07:48:49 +0000</lastBuildDate> <sy:updatePeriod> hourly </sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency> 1 </sy:updateFrequency> <item> <title> By: Brynn Jacobs </title> <link>https://dangerousintersection.org/2009/08/17/people-bringing-guns-to-locations-of-obama-speeches-nra-no-comment/comment-page-1/#comment-50384</link> <dc:creator><![CDATA[Brynn Jacobs]]></dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 07:48:49 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=8589#comment-50384</guid> <description><![CDATA[Does anyone believe that the targets of these gun proponents are their fellow citizens? I think it's clear that the target of their message is the federal government. One thing that the economic downturn has brought about is a burgeoning awareness of the importance of class in America. People are waking up and realizing that there seems to be two sets of rules- one for the wealthy or politically elite, and one for the rest of us. The people bringing guns to these town halls are not intending to chill free speech. In fact, I suspect that they respect free speech rights more than most. As Mark points out, if weapons dampen free speech rights, then where do we draw the line? Would the mere numerical superiority of one's opposition at one of these events then be enough to argue that your free speech rights were violated? But again, I think the point worth making is this: these protesters are intending to send a very specific message to their government. It's unfortunate that others feel threatened by that, but one does not have a right to feel free from fear at all times. You can fault them for perhaps being unclear in their message, but I think it's a valid message that they are attempting to communicate. In fact, the <a href="http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/96oct/obrien/blood.htm" rel="nofollow">Thomas Jefferson letter referenced above containing the famous "liberty tree" quotation</a> was in reaction to the "anarchy" in Massachusetts, speaking of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shays_rebellion" rel="nofollow">Shay's Rebellion.</a> Shay's rebellion was an armed revolt of poor farmers, who were being crushed under the weight of debt and taxes. The parallels between that time and today are striking, and I think that the protesters very much would like to draw attention to that. William Kostric, the first protester spotted with a gun, implored people to examine the context of the Jefferson quotation that he was referencing with his sign <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XflE0RMiIiA" rel="nofollow">when he was interviewed on Hardball with Chris Matthews.</a> Of course, the media can't or won't present the full context, so it's incumbent upon us to research it if we wish to understand what it is that motivates the protesters. Simply writing them off as typical right-wing gun nuts does nothing to advance anyone's understanding of the situation. Erich- as to your thought experiment, if <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Panther_Party#Conflict_with_law_enforcement" rel="nofollow">history is any guide,</a> the authorities would infiltrate them and possibly kill them. ]]></description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does anyone believe that the targets of these gun proponents are their fellow citizens? I think it's clear that the target of their message is the federal government. One thing that the economic downturn has brought about is a burgeoning awareness of the importance of class in America. People are waking up and realizing that there seems to be two sets of rules- one for the wealthy or politically elite, and one for the rest of us. </p> <p>The people bringing guns to these town halls are not intending to chill free speech. In fact, I suspect that they respect free speech rights more than most. As Mark points out, if weapons dampen free speech rights, then where do we draw the line? Would the mere numerical superiority of one's opposition at one of these events then be enough to argue that your free speech rights were violated? </p> <p>But again, I think the point worth making is this: these protesters are intending to send a very specific message to their government. It's unfortunate that others feel threatened by that, but one does not have a right to feel free from fear at all times. You can fault them for perhaps being unclear in their message, but I think it's a valid message that they are attempting to communicate. In fact, the <a href="http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/96oct/obrien/blood.htm" rel="nofollow">Thomas Jefferson letter referenced above containing the famous "liberty tree" quotation</a> was in reaction to the "anarchy" in Massachusetts, speaking of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shays_rebellion" rel="nofollow">Shay's Rebellion.</a> Shay's rebellion was an armed revolt of poor farmers, who were being crushed under the weight of debt and taxes. The parallels between that time and today are striking, and I think that the protesters very much would like to draw attention to that. William Kostric, the first protester spotted with a gun, implored people to examine the context of the Jefferson quotation that he was referencing with his sign <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XflE0RMiIiA" rel="nofollow">when he was interviewed on Hardball with Chris Matthews.</a> Of course, the media can't or won't present the full context, so it's incumbent upon us to research it if we wish to understand what it is that motivates the protesters. Simply writing them off as typical right-wing gun nuts does nothing to advance anyone's understanding of the situation. </p> <p>Erich- as to your thought experiment, if <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Panther_Party#Conflict_with_law_enforcement" rel="nofollow">history is any guide,</a> the authorities would infiltrate them and possibly kill them. </p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item> <title> By: Erich Vieth </title> <link>https://dangerousintersection.org/2009/08/17/people-bringing-guns-to-locations-of-obama-speeches-nra-no-comment/comment-page-1/#comment-50323</link> <dc:creator><![CDATA[Erich Vieth]]></dc:creator> <pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 17:02:42 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=8589#comment-50323</guid> <description><![CDATA[Thought experiment: What would the authorities do if a group of men wearing turbans showed up at an American political gathering, also displaying guns? What about a group of a dozen African-American men holding AK-47s? How many minutes before the entire lot of them would be tossed into jail for "resisting arrest"? ]]></description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thought experiment: What would the authorities do if a group of men wearing turbans showed up at an American political gathering, also displaying guns? What about a group of a dozen African-American men holding AK-47s? How many minutes before the entire lot of them would be tossed into jail for "resisting arrest"? </p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item> <title> By: Mark Tiedemann </title> <link>https://dangerousintersection.org/2009/08/17/people-bringing-guns-to-locations-of-obama-speeches-nra-no-comment/comment-page-1/#comment-50314</link> <dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark Tiedemann]]></dc:creator> <pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 07:42:44 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=8589#comment-50314</guid> <description><![CDATA[Erich, I do not disagree with the point you're making, but--- The same effect can be achieved by someone standing nearby with an ax-handle or a baseball bat or even just a clipboard, writing things down. It is the use to which people put these things that turn them into elements of a symbol, not the things themselves. It is not uncommon---in fact it's all too common---for people to be searched at rock concerts and disallowed objects confiscated or the person told to take it back to their car. Why not the same standard for political rallies? You put up a great big sign at each event: WORDS ARE THE ONLY WEAPONS ALLOWED HERE. ANYTHING ELSE, LEAVE IT AT HOME. Then do an admissions search. In short, we don't have to tolerate crap. ]]></description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Erich,</p> <p>I do not disagree with the point you're making, but—</p> <p>The same effect can be achieved by someone standing nearby with an ax-handle or a baseball bat or even just a clipboard, writing things down. It is the use to which people put these things that turn them into elements of a symbol, not the things themselves. </p> <p>It is not uncommon—in fact it's all too common—for people to be searched at rock concerts and disallowed objects confiscated or the person told to take it back to their car. Why not the same standard for political rallies? You put up a great big sign at each event: WORDS ARE THE ONLY WEAPONS ALLOWED HERE. ANYTHING ELSE, LEAVE IT AT HOME. Then do an admissions search.</p> <p>In short, we don't have to tolerate crap. </p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item> <title> By: Edgar Montrose </title> <link>https://dangerousintersection.org/2009/08/17/people-bringing-guns-to-locations-of-obama-speeches-nra-no-comment/comment-page-1/#comment-50313</link> <dc:creator><![CDATA[Edgar Montrose]]></dc:creator> <pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 06:34:20 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=8589#comment-50313</guid> <description><![CDATA["Brandishing weapons near president = bad." No question about that. But let's be clear: nobody was brandishing a weapon. There is a big difference between carrying a weapon and brandishing a weapon. I do not seek to defend those who carry firearms at the President's events. I think that it is inappropriate, dangerous, and ultimately counterproductive. But I do not want to see this made out to be something that it is not. ]]></description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"Brandishing weapons near president = bad."</p> <p>No question about that. But let's be clear: nobody was brandishing a weapon. There is a big difference between carrying a weapon and brandishing a weapon.</p> <p>I do not seek to defend those who carry firearms at the President's events. I think that it is inappropriate, dangerous, and ultimately counterproductive. But I do not want to see this made out to be something that it is not. </p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item> <title> By: Erich Vieth </title> <link>https://dangerousintersection.org/2009/08/17/people-bringing-guns-to-locations-of-obama-speeches-nra-no-comment/comment-page-1/#comment-50303</link> <dc:creator><![CDATA[Erich Vieth]]></dc:creator> <pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 01:10:29 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=8589#comment-50303</guid> <description><![CDATA[In reply to <a href="https://dangerousintersection.org/2009/08/17/people-bringing-guns-to-locations-of-obama-speeches-nra-no-comment/comment-page-1/#comment-50301">Jay Fraz</a>. Jay: I lived through the sixties as a youngster and even those terrible assassinations were far too much. But then it continued, including extremely public assassination attempts on Ronald Reagan and Gerald Ford, and probably hundreds of unpublicized attempts and half-baked schemes regarding every person who has ever served as President. In my opinion, letting people display guns near political debates is not a good thing. It's not, for instance, allowing them to let off steam. It is allowing them to stifle speech by displaying their thuggery. Who wants to vigorously debate or even carry a sign when some anonymous stern-looking guy is carrying a gun 10 feet away? ]]></description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://dangerousintersection.org/2009/08/17/people-bringing-guns-to-locations-of-obama-speeches-nra-no-comment/comment-page-1/#comment-50301">Jay Fraz</a>.</p> <p>Jay: I lived through the sixties as a youngster and even those terrible assassinations were far too much. But then it continued, including extremely public assassination attempts on Ronald Reagan and Gerald Ford, and probably hundreds of unpublicized attempts and half-baked schemes regarding every person who has ever served as President. </p> <p>In my opinion, letting people display guns near political debates is not a good thing. It's not, for instance, allowing them to let off steam. It is allowing them to stifle speech by displaying their thuggery. Who wants to vigorously debate or even carry a sign when some anonymous stern-looking guy is carrying a gun 10 feet away? </p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> </channel> </rss>