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	<title>Comments on: Why it matters that humans are animals.</title>
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	<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2009/05/03/why-it-matters-that-humans-are-animals/</link>
	<description>Human Animals at the Crossroads of Culture, Science, Religion and Media</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 19 Mar 2010 20:23:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: The crassness of a public abortion &#124; Dangerous Intersection</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2009/05/03/why-it-matters-that-humans-are-animals/comment-page-1/#comment-67432</link>
		<dc:creator>The crassness of a public abortion &#124; Dangerous Intersection</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 15:31:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=6622#comment-67432</guid>
		<description>[...] selection) to be the ghastly equivalent of murder. Here&#8217;s more on my analysis of abortion and my rejection of the religious concept of the &#8220;soul,&#8221; an ancient concept that inspires many people who are [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] selection) to be the ghastly equivalent of murder. Here&#8217;s more on my analysis of abortion and my rejection of the religious concept of the &#8220;soul,&#8221; an ancient concept that inspires many people who are [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Tony Coyle</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2009/05/03/why-it-matters-that-humans-are-animals/comment-page-1/#comment-39181</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony Coyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 14:32:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=6622#comment-39181</guid>
		<description>Psychic Melbourne - WTF?

Go read up on cetacea, and on our cousins - the apes (bonobos, chimpanzees, orang utans, gorillas, and others). Even look at our domestic pets (horses, cats, dogs, parrots even).

You think that none of these exhibit consciousness?  you obviously live is a daze.

You argument is spurious. 

Humans are conscious. Animals are not conscious. therefore humans are not animals?

That, as Spock might say, is illogical. (or simply, special pleading)

Regarding your assertions about DNA, you need to study some more.  Human DNA is closer to chimp &amp; bonobo DNA than any of us are to gorilla DNA (but that is still closer than non-apes).  We are also further removed from C. elegans, despite sharing many of the same regulatory and developmental genes (SOD, HOX and others).

There are clear examples of where those changes have occurred (see &lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromosome_2_(human)" rel="nofollow"&gt;Chromosome 2&lt;/a&gt;, our human chromosome is in fact two ape chromosomes joined end to end. This is such an accepted part of biology that the related ape chromosomes are now labeled 2p and 2q -- you need to go far back in publication history to find them labeled differently)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Psychic Melbourne - WTF?</p>
<p>Go read up on cetacea, and on our cousins - the apes (bonobos, chimpanzees, orang utans, gorillas, and others). Even look at our domestic pets (horses, cats, dogs, parrots even).</p>
<p>You think that none of these exhibit consciousness?  you obviously live is a daze.</p>
<p>You argument is spurious. </p>
<p>Humans are conscious. Animals are not conscious. therefore humans are not animals?</p>
<p>That, as Spock might say, is illogical. (or simply, special pleading)</p>
<p>Regarding your assertions about DNA, you need to study some more.  Human DNA is closer to chimp &#038; bonobo DNA than any of us are to gorilla DNA (but that is still closer than non-apes).  We are also further removed from C. elegans, despite sharing many of the same regulatory and developmental genes (SOD, HOX and others).</p>
<p>There are clear examples of where those changes have occurred (see <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromosome_2_(human)" rel="nofollow">Chromosome 2</a>, our human chromosome is in fact two ape chromosomes joined end to end. This is such an accepted part of biology that the related ape chromosomes are now labeled 2p and 2q &#8212; you need to go far back in publication history to find them labeled differently)</p>
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		<title>By: Psychic Melbourne</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2009/05/03/why-it-matters-that-humans-are-animals/comment-page-1/#comment-39169</link>
		<dc:creator>Psychic Melbourne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 06:57:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=6622#comment-39169</guid>
		<description>Science has found that humans have many bits of different animals in our DNA. This does not make us animals but it does seem like we may be classified as a carefully defined type of animal. However, no animal has the consciousness of humans and for that reason, I would not classify humans as animals at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Science has found that humans have many bits of different animals in our DNA. This does not make us animals but it does seem like we may be classified as a carefully defined type of animal. However, no animal has the consciousness of humans and for that reason, I would not classify humans as animals at all.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony Coyle</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2009/05/03/why-it-matters-that-humans-are-animals/comment-page-1/#comment-39124</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony Coyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 02:47:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=6622#comment-39124</guid>
		<description>The Jesuits have always been scary-smart. That's why they've always been the problem child of Catholicism and a challenge for the more 'fundamentalist' popes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Jesuits have always been scary-smart. That&#8217;s why they&#8217;ve always been the problem child of Catholicism and a challenge for the more &#8216;fundamentalist&#8217; popes.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Hogan</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2009/05/03/why-it-matters-that-humans-are-animals/comment-page-1/#comment-39114</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Hogan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2009 23:36:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=6622#comment-39114</guid>
		<description>Sounds as though Johnson, Lakoff and Damasio have finally caught up with the  Jesuits; " Men sana in corpore sano (a sound mind in a sound body)!"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sounds as though Johnson, Lakoff and Damasio have finally caught up with the  Jesuits; &#8221; Men sana in corpore sano (a sound mind in a sound body)!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Erich Vieth</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2009/05/03/why-it-matters-that-humans-are-animals/comment-page-1/#comment-39097</link>
		<dc:creator>Erich Vieth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2009 18:53:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=6622#comment-39097</guid>
		<description>Dave:  Thanks for your comments.   One of my links in this post is to an earlier post where I discuss (and find valuable) many of the points that Damasio makes in &lt;em&gt;Descartes Error&lt;/em&gt;.  I find Johnson/Lakoff a terrific complement to Damasio.  Sounds like we're both on the same wavelength.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave:  Thanks for your comments.   One of my links in this post is to an earlier post where I discuss (and find valuable) many of the points that Damasio makes in <em>Descartes Error</em>.  I find Johnson/Lakoff a terrific complement to Damasio.  Sounds like we&#8217;re both on the same wavelength.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2009/05/03/why-it-matters-that-humans-are-animals/comment-page-1/#comment-39092</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2009 17:59:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=6622#comment-39092</guid>
		<description>Antonio Damasio addresses the very same issues from the perspective of neuroscience and arrives at the same conclusion.

His first (of three) books was "Descartes' Error".  Descartes asserted that "I think, therefore I am".  To which Damasio responds that in fact "I feel, therefore I am".  It is the body, feeling the world in all its senses, that informs the mind.  Without the feeling, the mind would be lost.

Nice post.  I will have to read Johnson.  Lakoff I know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Antonio Damasio addresses the very same issues from the perspective of neuroscience and arrives at the same conclusion.</p>
<p>His first (of three) books was &#8220;Descartes&#8217; Error&#8221;.  Descartes asserted that &#8220;I think, therefore I am&#8221;.  To which Damasio responds that in fact &#8220;I feel, therefore I am&#8221;.  It is the body, feeling the world in all its senses, that informs the mind.  Without the feeling, the mind would be lost.</p>
<p>Nice post.  I will have to read Johnson.  Lakoff I know.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony Coyle</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2009/05/03/why-it-matters-that-humans-are-animals/comment-page-1/#comment-39091</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony Coyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2009 17:58:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=6622#comment-39091</guid>
		<description>More on topic - the fact that humans are animals provides a rationale and opportunity to observe and investigate our close and distant cousins, with the aim of discovering insight into ourselves.

I've always found anthropology fascinating, and many of our best insights are gleaned from observation and study of apes and other social animals.  Desmond Morris has always been one of my heroes in this field, and I remember reading &lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Naked_Ape" rel="nofollow"&gt;&lt;i&gt;"the Naked Ape"&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/a&gt; when I was approaching my teens. Other works, culminating in &lt;a href="http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&amp;source=web&amp;ct=res&amp;cd=1&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FManwatching-Field-Guide-Human-Behavior%2Fdp%2F0810921847&amp;ei=Iyz_SbHiLYaEtwel4MySDA&amp;usg=AFQjCNHvg3P08yXFl5JpFb_Z_7oO3a8cRg" rel="nofollow"&gt;&lt;i&gt;manwatching &lt;/i&gt;&lt;/a&gt;built on his background in zoology and crafted an incredibly influential body of work in anthropology.  

I am ever grateful that I grew up in the UK, where Desmond Morris, David Attenborough, and James Burke (among many others) were available on prime-time TV. Their words (and pictures) inspired an early and continuing interest in observation and questioning - not simply an interest in 'Science' but in participation!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>More on topic - the fact that humans are animals provides a rationale and opportunity to observe and investigate our close and distant cousins, with the aim of discovering insight into ourselves.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve always found anthropology fascinating, and many of our best insights are gleaned from observation and study of apes and other social animals.  Desmond Morris has always been one of my heroes in this field, and I remember reading <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Naked_Ape" rel="nofollow"><i>&#8220;the Naked Ape&#8221;</i></a> when I was approaching my teens. Other works, culminating in <a href="http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&#038;source=web&#038;ct=res&#038;cd=1&#038;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FManwatching-Field-Guide-Human-Behavior%2Fdp%2F0810921847&#038;ei=Iyz_SbHiLYaEtwel4MySDA&#038;usg=AFQjCNHvg3P08yXFl5JpFb_Z_7oO3a8cRg" rel="nofollow"><i>manwatching </i></a>built on his background in zoology and crafted an incredibly influential body of work in anthropology.  </p>
<p>I am ever grateful that I grew up in the UK, where Desmond Morris, David Attenborough, and James Burke (among many others) were available on prime-time TV. Their words (and pictures) inspired an early and continuing interest in observation and questioning - not simply an interest in &#8216;Science&#8217; but in participation!</p>
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		<title>By: Tony Coyle</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2009/05/03/why-it-matters-that-humans-are-animals/comment-page-1/#comment-39083</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony Coyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2009 13:34:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=6622#comment-39083</guid>
		<description>Another great post, Erich.

I agree with (and have thought about) many of the elements here. Like you I abhor the word supernatural. The prefix implies a state that is transcendent, better or superior to the mundane world of the natural that we inhabit.  As you later discuss, many of the perspectives that support the 'supernatural' are also cognates of delusion or insanity. 

In light of that, I tend to think of such things as a-natural.  That encompasses all fantasy and delusion (alternate worlds where the Roman Empire still exists; fairies and elves and unicorns and dragons and dwarves who mine gold and silver and fashion fabulous coats of mail; and the vast majority of religious thought and practice)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another great post, Erich.</p>
<p>I agree with (and have thought about) many of the elements here. Like you I abhor the word supernatural. The prefix implies a state that is transcendent, better or superior to the mundane world of the natural that we inhabit.  As you later discuss, many of the perspectives that support the &#8217;supernatural&#8217; are also cognates of delusion or insanity. </p>
<p>In light of that, I tend to think of such things as a-natural.  That encompasses all fantasy and delusion (alternate worlds where the Roman Empire still exists; fairies and elves and unicorns and dragons and dwarves who mine gold and silver and fashion fabulous coats of mail; and the vast majority of religious thought and practice)</p>
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