<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Should science study race and IQ?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://dangerousintersection.org/2009/03/06/should-science-study-race-and-iq/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2009/03/06/should-science-study-race-and-iq/</link>
	<description>Human Animals at the Crossroads of Culture, Science, Religion and Media</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 22 Mar 2010 01:38:21 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7.1</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Intelligence versus attractiveness; is there a correlation? &#124; Dangerous Intersection</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2009/03/06/should-science-study-race-and-iq/comment-page-1/#comment-37825</link>
		<dc:creator>Intelligence versus attractiveness; is there a correlation? &#124; Dangerous Intersection</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 04:25:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=5410#comment-37825</guid>
		<description>[...] This research does dispel the notion that very attractive woman are less intelligent than average-looking woman; according to this research, very attractive woman are in the most intelligent group.  I&#8217;m mulling over these findings; I don&#8217;t quite know what to think of this yet.  I do know that I&#8217;m highly suspicious of any sort of simplistic IQ-based characterization of &#8220;intelligence&#8221;  (I recently made that point here). [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This research does dispel the notion that very attractive woman are less intelligent than average-looking woman; according to this research, very attractive woman are in the most intelligent group.  I&#8217;m mulling over these findings; I don&#8217;t quite know what to think of this yet.  I do know that I&#8217;m highly suspicious of any sort of simplistic IQ-based characterization of &#8220;intelligence&#8221;  (I recently made that point here). [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Erich Vieth</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2009/03/06/should-science-study-race-and-iq/comment-page-1/#comment-37346</link>
		<dc:creator>Erich Vieth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Mar 2009 05:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=5410#comment-37346</guid>
		<description>

&lt;blockquote&gt;The introduction of IQ tests has always seemed to be one of the best examples of the great political and social harm that can be done by the mind-boggling arrogance of scientists who think that they can sum up human abilities in a single number.&lt;/blockquote&gt;



From a Letter to Nature (3/12/09 issue) by David Colquoun, Department of Pharmacology, University College London</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The introduction of IQ tests has always seemed to be one of the best examples of the great political and social harm that can be done by the mind-boggling arrogance of scientists who think that they can sum up human abilities in a single number.</p></blockquote>
<p>From a Letter to Nature (3/12/09 issue) by David Colquoun, Department of Pharmacology, University College London</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Diminishing races, growing family &#124; Dangerous Intersection</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2009/03/06/should-science-study-race-and-iq/comment-page-1/#comment-37248</link>
		<dc:creator>Diminishing races, growing family &#124; Dangerous Intersection</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 05:27:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=5410#comment-37248</guid>
		<description>[...] recently posted on the topic of whether science should study race and intelligence. I think this would be a worthy topic of science (just as is every other potential field of study), [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] recently posted on the topic of whether science should study race and intelligence. I think this would be a worthy topic of science (just as is every other potential field of study), [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: grumpypilgrim</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2009/03/06/should-science-study-race-and-iq/comment-page-1/#comment-37068</link>
		<dc:creator>grumpypilgrim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 21:09:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=5410#comment-37068</guid>
		<description>Niklaus' comment points us in the correct direction.  Going another step in that same direction, let's remember that scientists have identified at least half a dozen different kinds of "intelligence," including visual/spatial, musical, mathematical, linguistic, interpersonal, intrapersonal, kinesthetic, etc.  The issue isn't whether or not science should study race and IQ, it's that the traditional concept of "IQ" has become obsolete and we are only beginning to understand what "intelligence" is actually about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Niklaus&#8217; comment points us in the correct direction.  Going another step in that same direction, let&#8217;s remember that scientists have identified at least half a dozen different kinds of &#8220;intelligence,&#8221; including visual/spatial, musical, mathematical, linguistic, interpersonal, intrapersonal, kinesthetic, etc.  The issue isn&#8217;t whether or not science should study race and IQ, it&#8217;s that the traditional concept of &#8220;IQ&#8221; has become obsolete and we are only beginning to understand what &#8220;intelligence&#8221; is actually about.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John Maxwell</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2009/03/06/should-science-study-race-and-iq/comment-page-1/#comment-37015</link>
		<dc:creator>John Maxwell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Mar 2009 00:50:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=5410#comment-37015</guid>
		<description>I disagree; I think science should avoid studying race and IQ.  First of all, scientists should be prepared to come to any conclusion, and concluding that some races are better than others would be &lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotype_threat" rel="nofollow"&gt;bad&lt;/a&gt;.  Second of all, even if all of science unites on one perspective, it will be easy for outsiders to accuse them of being racist/politically correct, so a firm scientific conclusion won't necessarily translate into significant change in the public discourse.

Also, I don't quite see your problems with "race" and "IQ".  Different folks' ancestors lived in different parts of the world with different tribal setups, resulting in different selection pressures.  And the idea of general intelligence, which IQ is supposed to measure, is &lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_intelligence_factor" rel="nofollow"&gt;fairly well supported&lt;/a&gt;.  Really, it'd be a miracle if ancestral origin had 0 correlation with intellectual capacity.

The important thing right now is to 1) not talk about race and IQ and 2) if the subject comes up, tell them we're not sure if they're related, but that their actions as individuals will affect their future a hell of a lot more than whether people with their racial characteristics tend to do slightly better or slightly worse on average.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree; I think science should avoid studying race and IQ.  First of all, scientists should be prepared to come to any conclusion, and concluding that some races are better than others would be <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotype_threat" rel="nofollow">bad</a>.  Second of all, even if all of science unites on one perspective, it will be easy for outsiders to accuse them of being racist/politically correct, so a firm scientific conclusion won&#8217;t necessarily translate into significant change in the public discourse.</p>
<p>Also, I don&#8217;t quite see your problems with &#8220;race&#8221; and &#8220;IQ&#8221;.  Different folks&#8217; ancestors lived in different parts of the world with different tribal setups, resulting in different selection pressures.  And the idea of general intelligence, which IQ is supposed to measure, is <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_intelligence_factor" rel="nofollow">fairly well supported</a>.  Really, it&#8217;d be a miracle if ancestral origin had 0 correlation with intellectual capacity.</p>
<p>The important thing right now is to 1) not talk about race and IQ and 2) if the subject comes up, tell them we&#8217;re not sure if they&#8217;re related, but that their actions as individuals will affect their future a hell of a lot more than whether people with their racial characteristics tend to do slightly better or slightly worse on average.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Lola26</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2009/03/06/should-science-study-race-and-iq/comment-page-1/#comment-36935</link>
		<dc:creator>Lola26</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Mar 2009 18:03:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=5410#comment-36935</guid>
		<description>Dan, sounds like you don't feel that water "should" freeze at 32 degrees F given the possibility that the universal constants that govern molecular interactions may change.  I suppose that we have been grading the point at which water freezes on a curve (albeit a very tight one)based upon our emperical knowledge.  However, just because we can't know what the future holds, does this render the word "should" useless?  

I don't think Niklaus was attempting to set a "value", but rather merely referring to the average.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan, sounds like you don&#8217;t feel that water &#8220;should&#8221; freeze at 32 degrees F given the possibility that the universal constants that govern molecular interactions may change.  I suppose that we have been grading the point at which water freezes on a curve (albeit a very tight one)based upon our emperical knowledge.  However, just because we can&#8217;t know what the future holds, does this render the word &#8220;should&#8221; useless?  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think Niklaus was attempting to set a &#8220;value&#8221;, but rather merely referring to the average.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dan Klarmann</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2009/03/06/should-science-study-race-and-iq/comment-page-1/#comment-36931</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Klarmann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Mar 2009 05:27:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=5410#comment-36931</guid>
		<description>Lola, IQ scales according to the average of the test values in a group. There is no absolute definition of an IQ of 100. It is the current average for a demographic on a given test. If next year, the average 20 year old answers one less question correctly, then the definition of an IQ of 100 shifts to need one less correct answer in that demographic. The quintessential "grade on a curve".

32&#176;F was originally defined as that temperature at which pure Water at Standard Pressure would freeze. There are more accurate means of determining that temperature point now, so that if the universal constants that govern molecular interactions changed, we would see the freezing point change on the modern Fahrenheit scale. That is, if we could survive in the new environment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lola, IQ scales according to the average of the test values in a group. There is no absolute definition of an IQ of 100. It is the current average for a demographic on a given test. If next year, the average 20 year old answers one less question correctly, then the definition of an IQ of 100 shifts to need one less correct answer in that demographic. The quintessential &#8220;grade on a curve&#8221;.</p>
<p>32&deg;F was originally defined as that temperature at which pure Water at Standard Pressure would freeze. There are more accurate means of determining that temperature point now, so that if the universal constants that govern molecular interactions changed, we would see the freezing point change on the modern Fahrenheit scale. That is, if we could survive in the new environment.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Lola26</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2009/03/06/should-science-study-race-and-iq/comment-page-1/#comment-36930</link>
		<dc:creator>Lola26</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Mar 2009 03:46:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=5410#comment-36930</guid>
		<description>Nit picking Picking Nik nits:
{“Should”? It is a measure of how well one does on a test compared to others in the same age group. There is no preset “should” value.}

Depends on your definition of "should" doesn't it?  Should water freeze at 32 degrees?  Or would that just be comparing a particular molecule of H2O to others which have frozen in the past?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nit picking Picking Nik nits:<br />
{“Should”? It is a measure of how well one does on a test compared to others in the same age group. There is no preset “should” value.}</p>
<p>Depends on your definition of &#8220;should&#8221; doesn&#8217;t it?  Should water freeze at 32 degrees?  Or would that just be comparing a particular molecule of H2O to others which have frozen in the past?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Erich Vieth</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2009/03/06/should-science-study-race-and-iq/comment-page-1/#comment-36921</link>
		<dc:creator>Erich Vieth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Mar 2009 16:04:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=5410#comment-36921</guid>
		<description>Niklaus put a twist on my post with which I would disagree.  Yes, the concepts of "race" and "intelligence" are indeed artificial.  That's not what concerns me.  If we are to discuss anything complicated, we must resort to "artificial" constructs.  

My concern is that these two constructs, as used in most scientific research, are hopelessly vague.  

On the streets people use all kinds of heuristics to make use of "race," none of it meaningfully scientific. &lt;a href="http://dangerousintersection.org/2009/03/07/color-coded-history/" rel="nofollow"&gt;In my recent post on the East St. Louis race riot&lt;/a&gt;, for example, I freely referred to "race," "whites" and "blacks."  I didn't mean to suggest anything scientific--I do not believe that it is any more meaningful to group people by skin color than by hair color or eye color.  In the context of social strife, however, many people take skin color as indicative of an underlying reality.  The appearance becomes reality through ignorance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Niklaus put a twist on my post with which I would disagree.  Yes, the concepts of &#8220;race&#8221; and &#8220;intelligence&#8221; are indeed artificial.  That&#8217;s not what concerns me.  If we are to discuss anything complicated, we must resort to &#8220;artificial&#8221; constructs.  </p>
<p>My concern is that these two constructs, as used in most scientific research, are hopelessly vague.  </p>
<p>On the streets people use all kinds of heuristics to make use of &#8220;race,&#8221; none of it meaningfully scientific. <a href="http://dangerousintersection.org/2009/03/07/color-coded-history/" rel="nofollow">In my recent post on the East St. Louis race riot</a>, for example, I freely referred to &#8220;race,&#8221; &#8220;whites&#8221; and &#8220;blacks.&#8221;  I didn&#8217;t mean to suggest anything scientific&#8211;I do not believe that it is any more meaningful to group people by skin color than by hair color or eye color.  In the context of social strife, however, many people take skin color as indicative of an underlying reality.  The appearance becomes reality through ignorance.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dan Klarmann</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2009/03/06/should-science-study-race-and-iq/comment-page-1/#comment-36919</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Klarmann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Mar 2009 14:18:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=5410#comment-36919</guid>
		<description>Picking Nik nits:&lt;blockquote&gt;"Focusing on race and IQ is a bad idea simply because both are artificial concepts"&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Can you come up with an example of a non-artificial concept? Every idea is an artifice of the mind, based on preconceptions, environment, and learning. Any concept is the product of artifice with a range of disputable definitions, like "life" or "dirt".

&lt;blockquote&gt;[IQ] "is simply a ratio&lt;strike&gt;n&lt;/strike&gt; of how intelligent you are to how intelligent you should be at you particular age."&lt;/blockquote&gt;
"Should"? It is a measure of how well one does on a test compared to others in the same age group. There is no preset "should" value.

Ask any Asian about race. It is not about skin color, but about the height of the bridge of the nose and the set of the eyes. An Asian newly in America has trouble telling blacks from whites, but no problem distinguishing a Han from a Manchu from a Mongol from a Hui from a Zhuang from ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Picking Nik nits:<br />
<blockquote>&#8220;Focusing on race and IQ is a bad idea simply because both are artificial concepts&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>Can you come up with an example of a non-artificial concept? Every idea is an artifice of the mind, based on preconceptions, environment, and learning. Any concept is the product of artifice with a range of disputable definitions, like &#8220;life&#8221; or &#8220;dirt&#8221;.</p>
<blockquote><p>[IQ] &#8220;is simply a ratio<strike>n</strike> of how intelligent you are to how intelligent you should be at you particular age.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>&#8220;Should&#8221;? It is a measure of how well one does on a test compared to others in the same age group. There is no preset &#8220;should&#8221; value.</p>
<p>Ask any Asian about race. It is not about skin color, but about the height of the bridge of the nose and the set of the eyes. An Asian newly in America has trouble telling blacks from whites, but no problem distinguishing a Han from a Manchu from a Mongol from a Hui from a Zhuang from &#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
