Comments on: In by the hair on our chinny chin chins

By: tommy

tommy — Sat, 24 Jan 2009 16:00:22 +0000

link to text of referenced article by mark slouka:

http://www.indianz.com/board/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=35967

or a .pdf here

http://www.marktaggart.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/a_quibble.pdf

By: grumpypilgrim

grumpypilgrim — Sat, 24 Jan 2009 01:27:12 +0000

Further to Edgar’s comments about the rabble versus the Electoral College, I would go one step farther and say that the U.S. should ditch the presidential system altogether and adopt a parliamentary system, where the head of state and the head of the government are separate offices, and where the head of the government is elected by Congress. This would, however, require also changing Congress to eliminate the _de facto_ two-party system and create, instead, a system that would support a plurality of parties. One benefit of such changes would be to shift power away from the president and into the hands of Congress…something that might have reduced the odds of a nutcase president forcing the U.S. into war. Another benefit is the availability of a “no confidence” vote, whereby Congress could more easily remove a demonstrably incompetent prime minister.

By: grumpypilgrim

grumpypilgrim — Sat, 24 Jan 2009 01:15:32 +0000

Good point, Mike. I can relate — I’ve met more than a few otherwise progressive elders who have had strong racial or ethnic prejudices. As you say, we have to pick our battles.

By: Niklaus Pfirsig

Niklaus Pfirsig — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 19:57:42 +0000

Many of the founding fathers disagreed with the Federalist philosophy because they feared it would lead to a monarchy. According to the federal election commission, the establishment of the electoral college was becasue the founder had a distrust of politicians and also recognized the problems inherent in providing a timely and accurate accounting of the vote.
http://www.fec.gov/pdf/eleccoll.pdf

By: Mark Tiedemann

Mark Tiedemann — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 15:34:48 +0000

Edgar,

As well as a distrust of the plebiscite, there was the more practical matter of trying to maintain equal representation among 13 states with unequal population. All sorts of arrangements were tried out (in theory) to try to balance the fact that the most populous states would, in direct plebiscite, overwhelm less populous states. The “State” was to have equal footing with “The People.” Hence the division in numbers between the two Houses. For a long time, Senators were not directly elected, but appointed by governors—the only holdover of that we now have is the gubernatorial appointment of a senator to fulfill a term interrupted.

Distrust of the average Joe, though…seems we’re still seeing that play out between “republicans” and “democrats”…

By: Edgar Montrose

Edgar Montrose — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 13:52:03 +0000

Nicklaus; it is my understanding that the Electoral College was created because the Founding Fathers did not trust the people to elect the President directly. From the Federalist Papers;

“It was equally desirable, that the immediate election should be made by men most capable of analyzing the qualities adapted to the station, and acting under circumstances favorable to deliberation, and to a judicious combination of all the reasons and inducements which were proper to govern their choice. A small number of persons, selected by their fellow-citizens from the general mass, will be most likely to possess the information and discernment requisite to such complicated investigations. It was also peculiarly desirable to afford as little opportunity as possible to tumult and disorder. This evil was not least to be dreaded in the election of a magistrate, who was to have so important an agency in the administration of the government as the President of the United States. But the precautions which have been so happily concerted in the system under consideration, promise an effectual security against this mischief.”

(http://www.historycentral.com/elections/Electoralcollgewhy.html)

As for the American Idol reference, it is an admittedly limited analogy. The idea that I was trying to convey was that the election would become even more of a popularity contest than it already is.

By: Niklaus Pfirsig

Niklaus Pfirsig — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 05:33:59 +0000

Edgar, The Electoral College was actually formed as a means of tabulating the votes in the days before the US had a postal service and the fastest form of communication was by private courier on horseback . Now with computers, data mining, and GIS software gerrymandering has become a fine art and allows which ever party is in power at the right time to redraw the district boundaries in a manner that demographically favors the party in power. In a close race, the loser of the popular vote can win the electoral votes by a wide margin.

American Idol is different from the popular vote in US elections; In idol you pay 50 cents to vote and you can vote as many times as you like. In government elections you only get 1 vote.

By: Mike Pulcinella

Mike Pulcinella — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 04:36:34 +0000

Thanks grumpy, I agree! But the “mob” in this case turns out to be both my manager who is my 2nd cousin and the president of my company who also happens to be my uncle!! It makes for a difficult situation! I do the best that I can, but we are talking about the generation preceding mine, so you can imagine the crusty old stereotypes and bigotry. Think Archie Bunker.

By: grumpypilgrim

grumpypilgrim — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 00:00:12 +0000

Mike wrote, “I’ve had to be mostly in the closet with my support of him, silently enduring the thinly disguised racist overtones of their criticisms.”

Please don’t let the mob get away with bigotry, Mike. Obama might have more support if more of his supporters in entrenched Republican communities would confront and challenge the stereotypes, and openly support his objectives.

By: Edgar Montrose

Edgar Montrose — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 23:59:11 +0000

The Founding Fathers knew about the Tyranny of the Masses, and voter apathy, and voter ignorance. That is why they created the Electoral College. So why do so many people nowadays want to abolish it in favor of the popular vote?

If you think that American Idol is absurd, just wait until you see American President.