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	<title>Comments on: What&#8217;s so bad about socialism?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/09/28/whats-so-bad-about-socialism/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/09/28/whats-so-bad-about-socialism/</link>
	<description>Human Animals at the Crossroads of Culture, Science, Religion and Media</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 04:47:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Vicki Baker</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/09/28/whats-so-bad-about-socialism/comment-page-2/#comment-29613</link>
		<dc:creator>Vicki Baker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Nov 2008 15:21:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=3185#comment-29613</guid>
		<description>Karl, I quote the Bible's wisdom literature because I learned it an early age from people who  actually attempted to put it into practice, instead of trying to convince other people that they were morally superior because they called themselves Christians. So yes, it is "genuine in my mind" though I don't think the Bible is the only source of wisdom.

Many of the things my parents taught me I still practice. Not to spread gossip and slander is one of the basic principles I am glad they taught me. I have shared how I stopped one of the rumor emails about McCain that came to me. Apparently, you judge everyone by yourself and are unable to imagine that the people you deride as godless may actually have higher ethical standards in this area than you appear to.

Andy Martin's 4 year campaign of unsubstantiated rumor is not an attempt to flush out the truth. He has admitted that his original claim is a lie, yet it still circulates. His stories are definitely "tales meant to harm." You have spread these tales, and attempted to pass off Andy Martin as a credible source. This is a man who has said: &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;"I am able to understand how the Holocaust took place, and with every passing day feel less and less sorry that it did" &lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;"
How dare you compare your defense of this sad, vicious, mentally unstable little man with Martin Luther King? Really, how dare you? 

Please understand, I have nothing against you because of your religious faith or your conservative opinions. I know many people politically and religiously conservative people whose integrity I greatly respect. 

It's not your faith, it's not your politics, it's you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Karl, I quote the Bible&#8217;s wisdom literature because I learned it an early age from people who  actually attempted to put it into practice, instead of trying to convince other people that they were morally superior because they called themselves Christians. So yes, it is &#8220;genuine in my mind&#8221; though I don&#8217;t think the Bible is the only source of wisdom.</p>
<p>Many of the things my parents taught me I still practice. Not to spread gossip and slander is one of the basic principles I am glad they taught me. I have shared how I stopped one of the rumor emails about McCain that came to me. Apparently, you judge everyone by yourself and are unable to imagine that the people you deride as godless may actually have higher ethical standards in this area than you appear to.</p>
<p>Andy Martin&#8217;s 4 year campaign of unsubstantiated rumor is not an attempt to flush out the truth. He has admitted that his original claim is a lie, yet it still circulates. His stories are definitely &#8220;tales meant to harm.&#8221; You have spread these tales, and attempted to pass off Andy Martin as a credible source. This is a man who has said: <b><i>&#8220;I am able to understand how the Holocaust took place, and with every passing day feel less and less sorry that it did&#8221; </i></b>&#8221;<br />
How dare you compare your defense of this sad, vicious, mentally unstable little man with Martin Luther King? Really, how dare you? </p>
<p>Please understand, I have nothing against you because of your religious faith or your conservative opinions. I know many people politically and religiously conservative people whose integrity I greatly respect. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s not your faith, it&#8217;s not your politics, it&#8217;s you.</p>
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		<title>By: Karl</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/09/28/whats-so-bad-about-socialism/comment-page-2/#comment-29585</link>
		<dc:creator>Karl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Nov 2008 03:58:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=3185#comment-29585</guid>
		<description>Vicki, Do you quote the Bible's wisdom literature as though it is really genuine in your mind, or is it a tool to use back upon someone you feel is being contentious?

Sometimes speaking the truth like Martin Luther King Jr. did can stir up strife, but in the midst of strife, a really uncontentious demeanor can accomplish much good.  Unfortunately, the uncontentious demeanor often ends up being sacrificed by man's inhumanity to man.

It all depends on whether the words one uses are tales meant to harm or tales meant to flush out the truth.

King Solomom had no intention of cutting the child in half, but by stating that was the only way to resolve the conflict, he discoverd who the mother really was.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vicki, Do you quote the Bible&#8217;s wisdom literature as though it is really genuine in your mind, or is it a tool to use back upon someone you feel is being contentious?</p>
<p>Sometimes speaking the truth like Martin Luther King Jr. did can stir up strife, but in the midst of strife, a really uncontentious demeanor can accomplish much good.  Unfortunately, the uncontentious demeanor often ends up being sacrificed by man&#8217;s inhumanity to man.</p>
<p>It all depends on whether the words one uses are tales meant to harm or tales meant to flush out the truth.</p>
<p>King Solomom had no intention of cutting the child in half, but by stating that was the only way to resolve the conflict, he discoverd who the mother really was.</p>
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		<title>By: Vicki Baker</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/09/28/whats-so-bad-about-socialism/comment-page-1/#comment-29578</link>
		<dc:creator>Vicki Baker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Nov 2008 01:31:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=3185#comment-29578</guid>
		<description>Some ancient wisdom about maliciious rumors and whisper campaigns:

&lt;blockquote&gt;
As coals are to burning coals, and wood to fire; so is a contentious man to kindle strife.  The words of a talebearer are as wounds, and they go down into the innermost parts of the belly.

(Proverbs 26:20-22)
		
&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some ancient wisdom about maliciious rumors and whisper campaigns:</p>
<blockquote><p>
As coals are to burning coals, and wood to fire; so is a contentious man to kindle strife.  The words of a talebearer are as wounds, and they go down into the innermost parts of the belly.</p>
<p>(Proverbs 26:20-22)</p>
</blockquote>
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		<title>By: Tim Hogan</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/09/28/whats-so-bad-about-socialism/comment-page-1/#comment-29573</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Hogan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 22:13:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=3185#comment-29573</guid>
		<description>Karl; "I try to tolerate..."

Yoda; "There is do and not do. There is no try!"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Karl; &#8220;I try to tolerate&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Yoda; &#8220;There is do and not do. There is no try!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: projektleiterin</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/09/28/whats-so-bad-about-socialism/comment-page-1/#comment-29571</link>
		<dc:creator>projektleiterin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 21:03:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=3185#comment-29571</guid>
		<description>No wonder he keeps on lingering here, you encourage him, Erich!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No wonder he keeps on lingering here, you encourage him, Erich!</p>
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		<title>By: Karl</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/09/28/whats-so-bad-about-socialism/comment-page-1/#comment-29568</link>
		<dc:creator>Karl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 18:59:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=3185#comment-29568</guid>
		<description>I believe in civil discourse, non-coercive and non ad-hominum attacks with those I don't agree with.  That's what a moderate is to me.

I believe in the existence of a Creator to whom the natural world and all created creatures and beings are accountable.  In this regard I probably don't fit into the mold of this Website because I don't believe I am just a human animal.

I believe that all men are created equal and endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights.

I also believe in most of the rest of what was written in the Declaration of Independence.

I am first a deist and secondly an evangelical christian.   I don't believe in the need to preach at people, if they ask me what I really believe I will try to tell them as clearly as I can.

I don't believe that people are the product of some godless naturalistic cosmic experiment that devalues the life of any single individual, group of people or race of human beings.

I don't agree with the statement that humans are simply animals that are pawns to be pushed around by the winds of popular culture and humanistic philosophy. 

I try to be tolerant of other points of view but where there are laws and constitutions, one must be willing to accept the consequences of civil disobedience towards breaking the laws and attempting to quickly and easily modify or change such laws and constitutions.

If I believe existing laws are unfair or inappropriate, I will voice my opposition to the principles being espoused in the laws, not bad mouth those who are charged with their enforcement.  However, we need to identify those charged with the promise to uphold the laws and constitution who would rather operate under different existing interpretations of these laws and consitutions because they believe it is their duty to change the laws and constitution.

The U.S. Constitution contains written possibility for changes to the wording of the document and the need to clarify its application to existing cultural and societal norms and ideas.  Even the need for a Consitutional Convention is not excluded, but there are methods for each state to offer input into the laws and even definitions of societal customs that are acceptable in the United States.

People like Ghandi come to mind as moderates,  People like Napoleon, Marx, Lenin, Stalin, and several of the Obama clan in Kenya strike me as being extremists.

Those who signed the Declaration of Independence knew they were participating in an act of rebellion to the King of England.  Most of them would have said they were moderate, but were forced into extremist activities for the protection of their families, friends and faith in God.

I guess if you consider a persistent christian's comments as divisive and out of line with what you are trying to do with this wesite then I will abide by your decision and remove myself from participation in the exchange of ideas and relationships here on Dangerous Intersection.

If you prefer democracy - see if there is a need to close ranks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe in civil discourse, non-coercive and non ad-hominum attacks with those I don&#8217;t agree with.  That&#8217;s what a moderate is to me.</p>
<p>I believe in the existence of a Creator to whom the natural world and all created creatures and beings are accountable.  In this regard I probably don&#8217;t fit into the mold of this Website because I don&#8217;t believe I am just a human animal.</p>
<p>I believe that all men are created equal and endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights.</p>
<p>I also believe in most of the rest of what was written in the Declaration of Independence.</p>
<p>I am first a deist and secondly an evangelical christian.   I don&#8217;t believe in the need to preach at people, if they ask me what I really believe I will try to tell them as clearly as I can.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t believe that people are the product of some godless naturalistic cosmic experiment that devalues the life of any single individual, group of people or race of human beings.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t agree with the statement that humans are simply animals that are pawns to be pushed around by the winds of popular culture and humanistic philosophy. </p>
<p>I try to be tolerant of other points of view but where there are laws and constitutions, one must be willing to accept the consequences of civil disobedience towards breaking the laws and attempting to quickly and easily modify or change such laws and constitutions.</p>
<p>If I believe existing laws are unfair or inappropriate, I will voice my opposition to the principles being espoused in the laws, not bad mouth those who are charged with their enforcement.  However, we need to identify those charged with the promise to uphold the laws and constitution who would rather operate under different existing interpretations of these laws and consitutions because they believe it is their duty to change the laws and constitution.</p>
<p>The U.S. Constitution contains written possibility for changes to the wording of the document and the need to clarify its application to existing cultural and societal norms and ideas.  Even the need for a Consitutional Convention is not excluded, but there are methods for each state to offer input into the laws and even definitions of societal customs that are acceptable in the United States.</p>
<p>People like Ghandi come to mind as moderates,  People like Napoleon, Marx, Lenin, Stalin, and several of the Obama clan in Kenya strike me as being extremists.</p>
<p>Those who signed the Declaration of Independence knew they were participating in an act of rebellion to the King of England.  Most of them would have said they were moderate, but were forced into extremist activities for the protection of their families, friends and faith in God.</p>
<p>I guess if you consider a persistent christian&#8217;s comments as divisive and out of line with what you are trying to do with this wesite then I will abide by your decision and remove myself from participation in the exchange of ideas and relationships here on Dangerous Intersection.</p>
<p>If you prefer democracy - see if there is a need to close ranks.</p>
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		<title>By: Vicki Baker</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/09/28/whats-so-bad-about-socialism/comment-page-1/#comment-29563</link>
		<dc:creator>Vicki Baker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 16:16:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=3185#comment-29563</guid>
		<description>Karl, I don't see where, up to now, you get the idea that people here want you to fade into the woodwork. Lots of people here have been very generous with their time and attention, Dan in particular. I don't think anyone at DI demands that you embrace "atheistic naturalism" to be taken seriously. We do, however, demand of you what we demand of ourselves: a modicum of epistemic humility.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Karl, I don&#8217;t see where, up to now, you get the idea that people here want you to fade into the woodwork. Lots of people here have been very generous with their time and attention, Dan in particular. I don&#8217;t think anyone at DI demands that you embrace &#8220;atheistic naturalism&#8221; to be taken seriously. We do, however, demand of you what we demand of ourselves: a modicum of epistemic humility.</p>
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		<title>By: Vicki Baker</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/09/28/whats-so-bad-about-socialism/comment-page-1/#comment-29561</link>
		<dc:creator>Vicki Baker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 15:59:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=3185#comment-29561</guid>
		<description>PL, you said it. The rhetoric about socialism vs. rugged individualism rarely matches reality. Liberal blue parts of the map generate more $$$ for the GDP while the red areas are net absorbers of cash. Palin's town of Wassilla got $27 milion in federal $$, way more per capita than those she accuses of being socialist. 

Federal ag subsidies  go to the big corn and soybean operations, which grow the raw ingredients for highly processed foods that make us fat. These farm factories are tended by deskilled machine operators who watch dvd's in the air condiitioned cabs of their huge tractors. Meanwhile farmes in ultra liberal hippie Santa Cruz who grow a good portion of the country's lettuce, strawberries, and brussel sprouts, get almost no subsidies and do hard physical work.
Another example: the "Montana Freemen" movement whose &lt;a href="http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E01E5DC1739F933A05757C0A960958260&amp;sec=&amp;spon=&amp;pagewanted=all" rel="nofollow"&gt;violent anti-government rhetoric masked their dependence on federal handouts.&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PL, you said it. The rhetoric about socialism vs. rugged individualism rarely matches reality. Liberal blue parts of the map generate more $$$ for the GDP while the red areas are net absorbers of cash. Palin&#8217;s town of Wassilla got $27 milion in federal $$, way more per capita than those she accuses of being socialist. </p>
<p>Federal ag subsidies  go to the big corn and soybean operations, which grow the raw ingredients for highly processed foods that make us fat. These farm factories are tended by deskilled machine operators who watch dvd&#8217;s in the air condiitioned cabs of their huge tractors. Meanwhile farmes in ultra liberal hippie Santa Cruz who grow a good portion of the country&#8217;s lettuce, strawberries, and brussel sprouts, get almost no subsidies and do hard physical work.<br />
Another example: the &#8220;Montana Freemen&#8221; movement whose <a href="http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E01E5DC1739F933A05757C0A960958260&amp;sec=&amp;spon=&amp;pagewanted=all" rel="nofollow">violent anti-government rhetoric masked their dependence on federal handouts.</a></p>
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		<title>By: Erich Vieth</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/09/28/whats-so-bad-about-socialism/comment-page-1/#comment-29560</link>
		<dc:creator>Erich Vieth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 15:38:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=3185#comment-29560</guid>
		<description>Karl:  Please list some of your views that you think make you a "moderate" conservative as compared to a far right wing conservative.  I'd be interested to hear your views on this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Karl:  Please list some of your views that you think make you a &#8220;moderate&#8221; conservative as compared to a far right wing conservative.  I&#8217;d be interested to hear your views on this.</p>
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		<title>By: Karl</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/09/28/whats-so-bad-about-socialism/comment-page-1/#comment-29559</link>
		<dc:creator>Karl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 14:54:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=3185#comment-29559</guid>
		<description>Like I said above.

Ask a moderate conservative like me what it’s like to spend a few months conversing with the “crew” here at dangerous intersection and maybe you’ll understand why it not as easy to shake hands with someone who would really rather see you just fade away into the woodwork.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like I said above.</p>
<p>Ask a moderate conservative like me what it’s like to spend a few months conversing with the “crew” here at dangerous intersection and maybe you’ll understand why it not as easy to shake hands with someone who would really rather see you just fade away into the woodwork.</p>
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