Comments on: McCain’s goofy battery contest http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/08/06/mccain%e2%80%99s-goofy-battery-contest/ Human Animals at the Crossroads of Culture, Science, Religion and Media Sat, 22 Nov 2008 08:48:22 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: Dan Klarmann http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/08/06/mccain%e2%80%99s-goofy-battery-contest/#comment-23077 Dan Klarmann Sat, 09 Aug 2008 01:51:53 +0000 http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=2940#comment-23077 Nik is partially right. The inventor of the NiMh battery has a track record of hydrogen-based inventions. I think his flexible solar cell has a better future than the battery. NiMh is barely better than NiCd in terms of energy storage, and lead-acid for energy-per-weight. Lithium-ion batteries (Sony) beat all 3 in all 3 categories, plus shelf-life and cycle count. They just still cost more per KWh. Those college drop-outs (both of them named Steve) created one corner of the personal computer industry: Hobbyists and experimenters. I had one of their first commercial models (Apple ][) that originally cost half as much as the family car. But it was IBM that produced a box whose proliferation of third party add-ons and knock-off descendants made home computers economically possible for the masses. The high school kids who built that winning solar racer had big corporate support in both material and advice. Plus plenty of luck. Check out who holds the patents for their invention. The popular myth of the sole individual inventor is more legend than reality. Like Edison (and his hundred diligent developers) that "single-handedly" developed the light bulb, in a photo finish with several other inventors vying for the patent. If the $300M were to be used as a legal fund for individual inventors so that they could get the benefits of their inventions, much as the patent office was originally intended to do, then it might do some good for the little guy. Incremental improvements on the Lithium battery family may well be the energy storage leader for years to come. The only practical way to beat <a href="http://www.theodoregray.com/PeriodicTable/Elements/003/index.s7.html" target="_blank" title="Much about lithium" rel="nofollow">lithium</a> for energy-to-weight ratio is to use a fuel cell, or maybe cold fusion. Nik is partially right. The inventor of the NiMh battery has a track record of hydrogen-based inventions. I think his flexible solar cell has a better future than the battery. NiMh is barely better than NiCd in terms of energy storage, and lead-acid for energy-per-weight.
Lithium-ion batteries (Sony) beat all 3 in all 3 categories, plus shelf-life and cycle count. They just still cost more per KWh.

Those college drop-outs (both of them named Steve) created one corner of the personal computer industry: Hobbyists and experimenters. I had one of their first commercial models (Apple ][) that originally cost half as much as the family car. But it was IBM that produced a box whose proliferation of third party add-ons and knock-off descendants made home computers economically possible for the masses.

The high school kids who built that winning solar racer had big corporate support in both material and advice. Plus plenty of luck. Check out who holds the patents for their invention.

The popular myth of the sole individual inventor is more legend than reality. Like Edison (and his hundred diligent developers) that “single-handedly” developed the light bulb, in a photo finish with several other inventors vying for the patent.

If the $300M were to be used as a legal fund for individual inventors so that they could get the benefits of their inventions, much as the patent office was originally intended to do, then it might do some good for the little guy.

Incremental improvements on the Lithium battery family may well be the energy storage leader for years to come. The only practical way to beat lithium for energy-to-weight ratio is to use a fuel cell, or maybe cold fusion.

]]> By: Niklaus Pfirsig http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/08/06/mccain%e2%80%99s-goofy-battery-contest/#comment-23054 Niklaus Pfirsig Fri, 08 Aug 2008 18:57:34 +0000 http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=2940#comment-23054 Dan, I should at this time point out that is was a basement inventor that developed the NiMh battery technology now common in video camcorders and laptop computers. It was a small number of college drop outs working in their garages that created the personal computer industry when the corporate think tanks saw no profit in the idea. It was a group of high school kids that built a solar powered racer which beat several corporate sponsored entries in a race across Australia. I recommend that you find a copy of the documentary "Who Killed the Electric Car?". It makes the point that the car makers pull in a fortune from after market repair parts and service on gas burning cars. The GM EV-1 however, required almost no maintenance. Dan, I should at this time point out that is was a basement inventor that developed the NiMh battery technology now common in video camcorders and laptop computers.
It was a small number of college drop outs working in their garages that created the personal computer industry when the corporate think tanks saw no profit in the idea.
It was a group of high school kids that built a solar powered racer which beat several corporate sponsored entries in a race across Australia.

I recommend that you find a copy of the documentary “Who Killed the Electric Car?”. It makes the point that the car makers pull in a fortune from after market repair parts and service on gas burning cars. The GM EV-1 however, required almost no maintenance.

]]> By: Dan Klarmann http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/08/06/mccain%e2%80%99s-goofy-battery-contest/#comment-22932 Dan Klarmann Thu, 07 Aug 2008 01:01:05 +0000 http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=2940#comment-22932 With many multinational corporations already competing to develop a better battery to win several billion dollars a year in profits, I can't imagine the McCain prize actually causing any change in research behavior. The odds of some basement inventor coming up with something that full labs with the whole periodic table in stock and interdisciplinary teams working on it are somewhat slim. But that was a central plot device of Heinlein's <a href="http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/h/robert-heinlein/friday.htm" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Friday</a>. But if there were a similar prize for a U.S. auto manufacturer to produce a $15,000 sedan that gets 50mpg highway, it might do some good. Or just use the $300M as vouchers to upgrade 30,000 people to non-SUV hybrids instead of standard cars or SUV's, and get about the same effect. With many multinational corporations already competing to develop a better battery to win several billion dollars a year in profits, I can’t imagine the McCain prize actually causing any change in research behavior.

The odds of some basement inventor coming up with something that full labs with the whole periodic table in stock and interdisciplinary teams working on it are somewhat slim. But that was a central plot device of Heinlein’s Friday.

But if there were a similar prize for a U.S. auto manufacturer to produce a $15,000 sedan that gets 50mpg highway, it might do some good.

Or just use the $300M as vouchers to upgrade 30,000 people to non-SUV hybrids instead of standard cars or SUV’s, and get about the same effect.

]]> By: Niklaus Pfirsig http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/08/06/mccain%e2%80%99s-goofy-battery-contest/#comment-22917 Niklaus Pfirsig Wed, 06 Aug 2008 21:15:17 +0000 http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=2940#comment-22917 I think the idea of a design contest is a good one. A $300 million prize can create an environment of competition between manufacturers. When you consider that 20 or 30 corporations will put in as much as $100 millon each for the good will and prestige of making the best battery, then instead of $300 million in tax money going to research, you will have as much as $3 billion in privately funded R&D. And it doen't prevent the contest from being won by some unconventional thinker working in his garage or barn. Back in the days of the space race, his was how NASA funded a lot of the development of the technology used in the the moon missions, and the benefits have permeated our society. Some of the inventions that resulted from design contests include Spread Spectrum radio (the basis for WiFi and secure cordless phones), Integrated circuitry, the basis for computers, a multitude of safety features mandated in the design of modern cars. Design competitions, used to be a very common method for the government to stimulate the advancement of technology. I think the idea of a design contest is a good one. A $300 million prize can create an environment of competition between manufacturers. When you consider that 20 or 30 corporations will put in as much as $100 millon each for the good will and prestige of making the best battery, then instead of $300 million in tax money going to research, you will have as much as $3 billion in privately funded R&D. And it doen’t prevent the contest from being won by some unconventional thinker working in his garage or barn.

Back in the days of the space race, his was how NASA funded a lot of the development of the technology used in the the moon missions, and the benefits have permeated our society. Some of the inventions that resulted from design contests include Spread Spectrum radio (the basis for WiFi and secure cordless phones), Integrated circuitry, the basis for computers, a multitude of safety features mandated in the design of modern cars.

Design competitions, used to be a very common method for the government to stimulate the advancement of technology.

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