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	<title>Comments on: Why do boys wear pants and girls wear dresses?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/06/17/why-do-boys-wear-pants-and-girls-wear-dresses/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/06/17/why-do-boys-wear-pants-and-girls-wear-dresses/</link>
	<description>Human Animals at the Crossroads of Culture, Science, Religion and Media</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 23:36:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: grumpypilgrim</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/06/17/why-do-boys-wear-pants-and-girls-wear-dresses/#comment-19752</link>
		<dc:creator>grumpypilgrim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 22:56:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=2760#comment-19752</guid>
		<description>I believe I can say with confidence that all of you are wrong.  The divergence of clothing styles for men and women in Europe began during the Renaissance and then evolved over the centuries into the conventions we see today.  In the Middle Ages, clothing styles for men and women were basically the same:  both wore loose-fitting, knee-length tunics (similar to today's dresses) and hose (we call them tights).  During the Renaissance, with its emphasis on the human form, clothing became more fitted.  As it did so, and in part because of hunting and military needs, men's clothing evolved in the direction of ever-smaller skirts, while women's clothing evolved in the direction of ever-larger skirts.  For men, hose eventually gave way to breeches (loose-fitting, knee-length hose) in the early 1600s, and breeches then gave way to we know today as pants.  Women remained in skirts, in part because hose and breeches were originally fastened to the bodice with a series of tied ribbons, which made removing them for bathroom functions a time-consuming process.  Men, by contrast, didn't need to remove their breeches to urinate.  

Indeed, bathroom functions were apparently responsible for the fact that hose (for both men and women) and breeches (for men) were originally made separately for each leg and did not cover the crotch, much as cowboy chaps are today.  I suspect this is why we still refer to pants (a plural term) as "a pair" even though a modern "pair of pants" is actually a unitary item.  Of course, as men's tunics became shorter (becoming the doublet of the Renaissance), the open crotch needed to be covered, which led to the creation of the codpiece -- a fashion statement that was, thankfully, short-lived.

Meanwhile, women's dresses likewise evolved, developing hoops, bustles, corsets, etc., to emphasize various "ideal" forms of the female shape -- ideals that, as with men, changed over time (and continue to do so).  

For more information on this topic, just google any of the clothing terms mentioned above.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe I can say with confidence that all of you are wrong.  The divergence of clothing styles for men and women in Europe began during the Renaissance and then evolved over the centuries into the conventions we see today.  In the Middle Ages, clothing styles for men and women were basically the same:  both wore loose-fitting, knee-length tunics (similar to today&#8217;s dresses) and hose (we call them tights).  During the Renaissance, with its emphasis on the human form, clothing became more fitted.  As it did so, and in part because of hunting and military needs, men&#8217;s clothing evolved in the direction of ever-smaller skirts, while women&#8217;s clothing evolved in the direction of ever-larger skirts.  For men, hose eventually gave way to breeches (loose-fitting, knee-length hose) in the early 1600s, and breeches then gave way to we know today as pants.  Women remained in skirts, in part because hose and breeches were originally fastened to the bodice with a series of tied ribbons, which made removing them for bathroom functions a time-consuming process.  Men, by contrast, didn&#8217;t need to remove their breeches to urinate.  </p>
<p>Indeed, bathroom functions were apparently responsible for the fact that hose (for both men and women) and breeches (for men) were originally made separately for each leg and did not cover the crotch, much as cowboy chaps are today.  I suspect this is why we still refer to pants (a plural term) as &#8220;a pair&#8221; even though a modern &#8220;pair of pants&#8221; is actually a unitary item.  Of course, as men&#8217;s tunics became shorter (becoming the doublet of the Renaissance), the open crotch needed to be covered, which led to the creation of the codpiece &#8212; a fashion statement that was, thankfully, short-lived.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, women&#8217;s dresses likewise evolved, developing hoops, bustles, corsets, etc., to emphasize various &#8220;ideal&#8221; forms of the female shape &#8212; ideals that, as with men, changed over time (and continue to do so).  </p>
<p>For more information on this topic, just google any of the clothing terms mentioned above.</p>
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		<title>By: Candace Uhlmeyer</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/06/17/why-do-boys-wear-pants-and-girls-wear-dresses/#comment-19750</link>
		<dc:creator>Candace Uhlmeyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 22:17:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=2760#comment-19750</guid>
		<description>I seem to remember that both the Jesuit and Franciscan fathers in my youth wore dresses.

What does it all mean?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I seem to remember that both the Jesuit and Franciscan fathers in my youth wore dresses.</p>
<p>What does it all mean?</p>
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		<title>By: Vicki Baker</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/06/17/why-do-boys-wear-pants-and-girls-wear-dresses/#comment-19708</link>
		<dc:creator>Vicki Baker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 03:54:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=2760#comment-19708</guid>
		<description>Sorry, I didn't get that the explanation you gave in the  Epilogue was an example of a faux explanation.

But then you asked: . 
&lt;blockquote&gt;
Why do girls wear dresses but not boys? Is it totally happenstance or is there something deep-rooted in our biology that pushes it that way?
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

No, culture doesn't get written on a completely blank slate. But consider:

1. In Culture A, women wear skirts that expose their legs and men wear pants.

2. In Culture B, women always wear pants and never skirts. Men also wear pants.

3. in Culture C, men wear short skirts that expose their legs and women wear long skirts that cover their legs. Nobody wears pants, though they might wear socks or stockings.

All 3 cultures are located in temperate climates that experience a wide range of weather conditions.  Since the biology is the same in all 3 cultures, how could there be a biological explanation that is more salient or "deep-rooted" than historical/cultural explanations?

Nikolaus' story is another example of the seductiveness of "because."

&lt;blockquote&gt;
women were sheltered due to their importance as mothers, and as such took on the roles of raising the children while the men hunted and farmed to provide for the family.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

OK, I'll grant that hunting and warfare are male occupations pretty universally. But historically only very very wealthy women have been "sheltered" from food-gathering and agricultural work. 

&lt;blockquote&gt;
pants were much more practical than skirts for hunting and farming as they provided protection from thorns, poisonous plants and insects, as well as from the effects of cold.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Tell that to the ancient Romans, the Scots and the Bhutanese.

I'll grant that there's a deep-rooted biological reason for horseback riders of whatever sex to wear trousers, with or without an overskirt. But why ride the horse instead of harnessing it to a chariot?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, I didn&#8217;t get that the explanation you gave in the  Epilogue was an example of a faux explanation.</p>
<p>But then you asked: . </p>
<blockquote><p>
Why do girls wear dresses but not boys? Is it totally happenstance or is there something deep-rooted in our biology that pushes it that way?
</p></blockquote>
<p>No, culture doesn&#8217;t get written on a completely blank slate. But consider:</p>
<p>1. In Culture A, women wear skirts that expose their legs and men wear pants.</p>
<p>2. In Culture B, women always wear pants and never skirts. Men also wear pants.</p>
<p>3. in Culture C, men wear short skirts that expose their legs and women wear long skirts that cover their legs. Nobody wears pants, though they might wear socks or stockings.</p>
<p>All 3 cultures are located in temperate climates that experience a wide range of weather conditions.  Since the biology is the same in all 3 cultures, how could there be a biological explanation that is more salient or &#8220;deep-rooted&#8221; than historical/cultural explanations?</p>
<p>Nikolaus&#8217; story is another example of the seductiveness of &#8220;because.&#8221;</p>
<blockquote><p>
women were sheltered due to their importance as mothers, and as such took on the roles of raising the children while the men hunted and farmed to provide for the family.
</p></blockquote>
<p>OK, I&#8217;ll grant that hunting and warfare are male occupations pretty universally. But historically only very very wealthy women have been &#8220;sheltered&#8221; from food-gathering and agricultural work. </p>
<blockquote><p>
pants were much more practical than skirts for hunting and farming as they provided protection from thorns, poisonous plants and insects, as well as from the effects of cold.
</p></blockquote>
<p>Tell that to the ancient Romans, the Scots and the Bhutanese.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll grant that there&#8217;s a deep-rooted biological reason for horseback riders of whatever sex to wear trousers, with or without an overskirt. But why ride the horse instead of harnessing it to a chariot?</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Klarmann</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/06/17/why-do-boys-wear-pants-and-girls-wear-dresses/#comment-19704</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Klarmann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 23:30:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=2760#comment-19704</guid>
		<description>I thought the point of the post was of dogma presented as proof via the conjunction "because", not of skirts per se. I've never worn a dress, but there is a picture of me posing in a skirt, somewhere online.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought the point of the post was of dogma presented as proof via the conjunction &#8220;because&#8221;, not of skirts per se. I&#8217;ve never worn a dress, but there is a picture of me posing in a skirt, somewhere online.</p>
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		<title>By: Erich Vieth</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/06/17/why-do-boys-wear-pants-and-girls-wear-dresses/#comment-19696</link>
		<dc:creator>Erich Vieth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 20:12:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=2760#comment-19696</guid>
		<description>Vicki: I'm not claiming that there is a gene for dress-wearing.   My gut feeling is that things developed, in the culture in which I live, along the line described above in the comment by Niklaus Pfirsig.   

I don't believe that the gender divide in American culture is written on a blank slate.   If I didn't make it clear, my suggestion in the "epilogue" of the post focused on a faux explanation of the gender divide in dress wearing in American culture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vicki: I&#8217;m not claiming that there is a gene for dress-wearing.   My gut feeling is that things developed, in the culture in which I live, along the line described above in the comment by Niklaus Pfirsig.   </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t believe that the gender divide in American culture is written on a blank slate.   If I didn&#8217;t make it clear, my suggestion in the &#8220;epilogue&#8221; of the post focused on a faux explanation of the gender divide in dress wearing in American culture.</p>
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		<title>By: Vicki Baker</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/06/17/why-do-boys-wear-pants-and-girls-wear-dresses/#comment-19692</link>
		<dc:creator>Vicki Baker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 18:56:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=2760#comment-19692</guid>
		<description>Of course I should point out that something's sarong with your basic premise that "boys don't wear dresses." I think you are kilty of over-generalizing from your own cultural premises.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course I should point out that something&#8217;s sarong with your basic premise that &#8220;boys don&#8217;t wear dresses.&#8221; I think you are kilty of over-generalizing from your own cultural premises.</p>
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		<title>By: Vicki Baker</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/06/17/why-do-boys-wear-pants-and-girls-wear-dresses/#comment-19690</link>
		<dc:creator>Vicki Baker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 18:53:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=2760#comment-19690</guid>
		<description>Erich - to clarify, are you seriously suggesting that there is some sort of evolved mental module that explains why men wear pants and women dresses? Or do clothing choices instead rely on a generalized desire  to attract admiring glances from the opposite sex without making others in one's social group feel overly uncomfortable or jealous, combined with a generalized mental ability to make choices to achieve this goal from the behavioral repertoire available within a given culture?

If you arguing the first alternative, you got a lot of 'splainin' to do, starting with why salwar-kameez-wearing cultures don't seem to have this mental module. If the second, then it seems that cultural/historical explanations would probably provide a better explanation for a behavior that is culturally determined, and which depends on a relatively recent technological innovation (tailoring).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Erich - to clarify, are you seriously suggesting that there is some sort of evolved mental module that explains why men wear pants and women dresses? Or do clothing choices instead rely on a generalized desire  to attract admiring glances from the opposite sex without making others in one&#8217;s social group feel overly uncomfortable or jealous, combined with a generalized mental ability to make choices to achieve this goal from the behavioral repertoire available within a given culture?</p>
<p>If you arguing the first alternative, you got a lot of &#8217;splainin&#8217; to do, starting with why salwar-kameez-wearing cultures don&#8217;t seem to have this mental module. If the second, then it seems that cultural/historical explanations would probably provide a better explanation for a behavior that is culturally determined, and which depends on a relatively recent technological innovation (tailoring).</p>
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		<title>By: Niklaus Pfirsig</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/06/17/why-do-boys-wear-pants-and-girls-wear-dresses/#comment-19680</link>
		<dc:creator>Niklaus Pfirsig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 17:26:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=2760#comment-19680</guid>
		<description>A more likely explanation is related to social roles and mode of transportation. In ancient societies pants were a part of slave attire, but as horseback riding became more common, pants offered more protection to the legs than kilts and similar skirt like garb. Also in ancient society, women were sheltered due to their importance as mothers, and as such took on the roles of raising the children while the men hunted and farmed to provide for the family. pants were much more practical than skirts for hunting and farming as they provided protection from thorns, poisonous plants and insects, as well as from the effects of cold.
 Over the years, the roles were slowly redefined. Women were protected not because of their importance to survival, but because they were deemed "weak", and pants became a symbol of masculinity.
  I know that some church's doctrine actually require that women wear dresses and men wear pants, but they accept that men in the time of Jesus did not wear pants without question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A more likely explanation is related to social roles and mode of transportation. In ancient societies pants were a part of slave attire, but as horseback riding became more common, pants offered more protection to the legs than kilts and similar skirt like garb. Also in ancient society, women were sheltered due to their importance as mothers, and as such took on the roles of raising the children while the men hunted and farmed to provide for the family. pants were much more practical than skirts for hunting and farming as they provided protection from thorns, poisonous plants and insects, as well as from the effects of cold.<br />
 Over the years, the roles were slowly redefined. Women were protected not because of their importance to survival, but because they were deemed &#8220;weak&#8221;, and pants became a symbol of masculinity.<br />
  I know that some church&#8217;s doctrine actually require that women wear dresses and men wear pants, but they accept that men in the time of Jesus did not wear pants without question.</p>
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		<title>By: Erich Vieth</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/06/17/why-do-boys-wear-pants-and-girls-wear-dresses/#comment-19679</link>
		<dc:creator>Erich Vieth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 16:56:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=2760#comment-19679</guid>
		<description>Vicki: I know that the my EP-based answer is not totally satisfying to you (or to me).   But assume that you simply HAD to give your best guess.  Why do girls wear dresses but not boys?   Is it totally happenstance or is there something deep-rooted in our biology that pushes it that way?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vicki: I know that the my EP-based answer is not totally satisfying to you (or to me).   But assume that you simply HAD to give your best guess.  Why do girls wear dresses but not boys?   Is it totally happenstance or is there something deep-rooted in our biology that pushes it that way?</p>
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		<title>By: Vicki Baker</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/06/17/why-do-boys-wear-pants-and-girls-wear-dresses/#comment-19677</link>
		<dc:creator>Vicki Baker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 15:39:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=2760#comment-19677</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I believe that girls wear dresses to display their legs in order to convince potential mates that the girls are biologically fit. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Good lord, how did we manage to survive and reproduce all those centuries when a glimpse of female stocking was looked upon as something shocking?

And what about all those pinup boys of Western art, in their short come-hither tunics and sexy tight hose?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I believe that girls wear dresses to display their legs in order to convince potential mates that the girls are biologically fit. </p></blockquote>
<p>Good lord, how did we manage to survive and reproduce all those centuries when a glimpse of female stocking was looked upon as something shocking?</p>
<p>And what about all those pinup boys of Western art, in their short come-hither tunics and sexy tight hose?</p>
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