Comments on: On June 7, 2008 you can march to protest . . . the voluntary use of birth control pills . . . Huh? http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/05/07/on-june-7-2008-you-can-march-to-protest-the-voluntary-use-of-birth-control-pills-huh/ Human Animals at the Crossroads of Culture, Science, Religion and Media Thu, 04 Dec 2008 21:04:11 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: grumpypilgrim http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/05/07/on-june-7-2008-you-can-march-to-protest-the-voluntary-use-of-birth-control-pills-huh/#comment-18259 grumpypilgrim Sat, 10 May 2008 00:39:54 +0000 http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=2546#comment-18259 If someone works in a convenience store and objects to the girlie magazines being sold, she doesn't unilaterally refuse to sell the magazines: she quits her job and finds work that doesn't conflict with her religious beliefs. Likewise, if someone works in a liquor store, and converts to a religion that bans alcohol, he doesn't continue collecting his liquor store paycheck while refusing to sell booze: he quits working in liquor stores, because taking the money would be immoral. It's the same logic for pharmacists: those who object to selling Plan B because of their religious beliefs should quit their jobs if they have genuine moral outrage. Continuing to collect a paycheck (some of which is generated by the sale of Plan B), while unilaterally refusing to fill prescriptions for Plan B, is pure hypocrisy. If someone truly had a moral problem, he'd resign. If someone works in a convenience store and objects to the girlie magazines being sold, she doesn’t unilaterally refuse to sell the magazines: she quits her job and finds work that doesn’t conflict with her religious beliefs. Likewise, if someone works in a liquor store, and converts to a religion that bans alcohol, he doesn’t continue collecting his liquor store paycheck while refusing to sell booze: he quits working in liquor stores, because taking the money would be immoral. It’s the same logic for pharmacists: those who object to selling Plan B because of their religious beliefs should quit their jobs if they have genuine moral outrage. Continuing to collect a paycheck (some of which is generated by the sale of Plan B), while unilaterally refusing to fill prescriptions for Plan B, is pure hypocrisy. If someone truly had a moral problem, he’d resign.

]]> By: Erika Price http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/05/07/on-june-7-2008-you-can-march-to-protest-the-voluntary-use-of-birth-control-pills-huh/#comment-18199 Erika Price Thu, 08 May 2008 16:54:00 +0000 http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=2546#comment-18199 I'd like to discuss something related to Dan's comment, even at the risk of being slightly off-topic. Should pharmacists be able to refuse "plan B" pills, or even birth control pills to patients with prescriptions? Some extreme conservatives think so. BUT, many of these extreme conservatives, most of them religious Christians, oppose Scientology. Scientologists don't believe in psychiatric drugs. Should a Scientologist pharmacist have the right to refuse a depressed person their Prozac, or even a bipolar person their lithium? Based on the logic of Christians' anti-birth control arguements, they should. But I doubt very many Christians would support such Scientologists in practice. (Though it is very unlikely that Scientologist pharmacists exist in large numbers). I’d like to discuss something related to Dan’s comment, even at the risk of being slightly off-topic. Should pharmacists be able to refuse “plan B” pills, or even birth control pills to patients with prescriptions? Some extreme conservatives think so.

BUT, many of these extreme conservatives, most of them religious Christians, oppose Scientology. Scientologists don’t believe in psychiatric drugs. Should a Scientologist pharmacist have the right to refuse a depressed person their Prozac, or even a bipolar person their lithium? Based on the logic of Christians’ anti-birth control arguements, they should. But I doubt very many Christians would support such Scientologists in practice. (Though it is very unlikely that Scientologist pharmacists exist in large numbers).

]]> By: Vicki Baker http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/05/07/on-june-7-2008-you-can-march-to-protest-the-voluntary-use-of-birth-control-pills-huh/#comment-18197 Vicki Baker Thu, 08 May 2008 16:12:46 +0000 http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=2546#comment-18197 <blockquote>shrinking of the womb</blockquote> I thought it was higher education that did this. You know, broaden your mind, narrow your uterus.

shrinking of the womb

I thought it was higher education that did this. You know, broaden your mind, narrow your uterus.

]]> By: Dan Klarmann http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/05/07/on-june-7-2008-you-can-march-to-protest-the-voluntary-use-of-birth-control-pills-huh/#comment-18193 Dan Klarmann Thu, 08 May 2008 14:26:19 +0000 http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=2546#comment-18193 How does this tie in with the right of pharmacists to override the rights of doctors and patients in regards to filling birth control prescriptions? More obliquely: How does this tie in with the needs of the prison lobby, who know that the majority of violent offenders start out as unwanted children? How does this tie in with the right of pharmacists to override the rights of doctors and patients in regards to filling birth control prescriptions?

More obliquely: How does this tie in with the needs of the prison lobby, who know that the majority of violent offenders start out as unwanted children?

]]> By: Erika Price http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/05/07/on-june-7-2008-you-can-march-to-protest-the-voluntary-use-of-birth-control-pills-huh/#comment-18192 Erika Price Thu, 08 May 2008 14:24:04 +0000 http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=2546#comment-18192 McCain also falls on the kooky side of the vaccine-causing-autism myth. Issues like this have me convinced that we do, in fact, need a Science Debate between the candidates. At present I see no concern in basing scientific/public health positions on actual fact. McCain is not the only one, but he is certainly the worst offender of the mainstream candidates. The science debate movement, of course, is here: http://www.sciencedebate2008.com McCain also falls on the kooky side of the vaccine-causing-autism myth. Issues like this have me convinced that we do, in fact, need a Science Debate between the candidates. At present I see no concern in basing scientific/public health positions on actual fact. McCain is not the only one, but he is certainly the worst offender of the mainstream candidates.

The science debate movement, of course, is here: http://www.sciencedebate2008.com

]]> By: Erich Vieth http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/05/07/on-june-7-2008-you-can-march-to-protest-the-voluntary-use-of-birth-control-pills-huh/#comment-18191 Erich Vieth Thu, 08 May 2008 14:11:49 +0000 http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=2546#comment-18191 Erika, check this out: McCain says that he doesn’t know whether condoms reduce risk of HIV. If the mainstream media has any inkling to show the public who McCain really is, his whole campaign will be topedoed. About 10 years ago, I thought McCain was one of the more reasonable members of Congress. Nothing like a bunch of Neocon money pouring into your campaign to warp your views. http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/03/16/john-mccain-doesnt-know-whether-condoms-reduce-risk-of-hiv/ Erika, check this out: McCain says that he doesn’t know whether condoms reduce risk of HIV. If the mainstream media has any inkling to show the public who McCain really is, his whole campaign will be topedoed. About 10 years ago, I thought McCain was one of the more reasonable members of Congress. Nothing like a bunch of Neocon money pouring into your campaign to warp your views. http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/03/16/john-mccain-doesnt-know-whether-condoms-reduce-risk-of-hiv/

]]> By: Erika Price http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/05/07/on-june-7-2008-you-can-march-to-protest-the-voluntary-use-of-birth-control-pills-huh/#comment-18189 Erika Price Thu, 08 May 2008 14:04:33 +0000 http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=2546#comment-18189 Waaait a second here...the pill is not advisable because it fails to do something that it <i>doesn't purport to do</i>? And if it isn't a 100% perfect way to prevent pregnancy, it's no good at all (ignoring that perfect use is associated with 99.9% efficacy)? Hm...You know, I'm starting to suspect these folks don't care about the logic of their arguments at all! Ain't that the darndest thing. Oh that McCain. I don't envy his position in the slightest. To be marketable to religious conservative voters, he'll have to adopt some really ridiculous positions, at the risk of losing that illusion that he is "moderate". Or maybe he'll just take a breathtakingly conservative running mate? That seems like the politically "wisest" choice to me. VPs can take more flak than presidents. Waaait a second here…the pill is not advisable because it fails to do something that it doesn’t purport to do? And if it isn’t a 100% perfect way to prevent pregnancy, it’s no good at all (ignoring that perfect use is associated with 99.9% efficacy)? Hm…You know, I’m starting to suspect these folks don’t care about the logic of their arguments at all! Ain’t that the darndest thing.

Oh that McCain. I don’t envy his position in the slightest. To be marketable to religious conservative voters, he’ll have to adopt some really ridiculous positions, at the risk of losing that illusion that he is “moderate”. Or maybe he’ll just take a breathtakingly conservative running mate? That seems like the politically “wisest” choice to me. VPs can take more flak than presidents.

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