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	<title>Comments on: The tempting beauty of orchids and Darwin&#8217;s insight.</title>
	<atom:link href="http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/03/16/the-tempting-beauty-of-orchids-and-darwins-insight/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/03/16/the-tempting-beauty-of-orchids-and-darwins-insight/</link>
	<description>Human Animals at the Crossroads of Culture, Science, Religion and Media</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 05:48:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Catherine</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/03/16/the-tempting-beauty-of-orchids-and-darwins-insight/#comment-16954</link>
		<dc:creator>Catherine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Mar 2008 04:16:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/03/16/the-tempting-beauty-of-orchids-and-darwins-insight/#comment-16954</guid>
		<description>Dan: Thank you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan: Thank you!</p>
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		<title>By: Ebonmuse</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/03/16/the-tempting-beauty-of-orchids-and-darwins-insight/#comment-16952</link>
		<dc:creator>Ebonmuse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Mar 2008 04:01:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/03/16/the-tempting-beauty-of-orchids-and-darwins-insight/#comment-16952</guid>
		<description>Catherine, a good answer to your question is that the flowers don't need to be able to see - because bees can, and bees are the ones that determine which flowers get pollinated and reproduce. 

In the ancestral population, if some flower, just by chance, happened to look a little like a bee, bees might be more likely to visit it. They'd pollinate that flower, which reproduces and passes its genes on to the next generation of flowers. Again, if some flower in the new generation looked a little more like a bee, it'd be even more likely to be visited and pollinated. As this process continues over many generations, the flower population as a whole gradually looks more and more like the bees that pollinate them.

Note, this has nothing to do with what the flowers "want". Flowers don't want anything. Like all living things, each generation brings forth new varieties of individuals. just by chance. Those characteristics which make it more likely that their possessors will reproduce get passed on. The ones that don't assist in reproduction tend to die out. Over time, if there is a consistent selective pressure towards certain kinds of characteristics, those are the characteristics that will eventually predominate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Catherine, a good answer to your question is that the flowers don&#8217;t need to be able to see - because bees can, and bees are the ones that determine which flowers get pollinated and reproduce. </p>
<p>In the ancestral population, if some flower, just by chance, happened to look a little like a bee, bees might be more likely to visit it. They&#8217;d pollinate that flower, which reproduces and passes its genes on to the next generation of flowers. Again, if some flower in the new generation looked a little more like a bee, it&#8217;d be even more likely to be visited and pollinated. As this process continues over many generations, the flower population as a whole gradually looks more and more like the bees that pollinate them.</p>
<p>Note, this has nothing to do with what the flowers &#8220;want&#8221;. Flowers don&#8217;t want anything. Like all living things, each generation brings forth new varieties of individuals. just by chance. Those characteristics which make it more likely that their possessors will reproduce get passed on. The ones that don&#8217;t assist in reproduction tend to die out. Over time, if there is a consistent selective pressure towards certain kinds of characteristics, those are the characteristics that will eventually predominate.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Klarmann</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/03/16/the-tempting-beauty-of-orchids-and-darwins-insight/#comment-16941</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Klarmann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 18:46:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/03/16/the-tempting-beauty-of-orchids-and-darwins-insight/#comment-16941</guid>
		<description>Catherine: It's not so much about an individual "knowing" how to grow, but having chosen their ancestors to be more effective at luring the right pollinator.

As you might notice, the question is backwards. The complex mechanism that forms a phenotype (what a living thing appears to be) depends on its genetic ancestors, not the other way around.

Those blind ancestors didn't make themselves over to resemble their pollinators; they were pollinated by those who recognized themselves in the random patterns of our subject. Those flowers that didn't attract pollinators simply did not propagate. So the pollinators selected the flowers, that then appealed more to particular pollinators, and round we go. Co-evolution in action.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Catherine: It&#8217;s not so much about an individual &#8220;knowing&#8221; how to grow, but having chosen their ancestors to be more effective at luring the right pollinator.</p>
<p>As you might notice, the question is backwards. The complex mechanism that forms a phenotype (what a living thing appears to be) depends on its genetic ancestors, not the other way around.</p>
<p>Those blind ancestors didn&#8217;t make themselves over to resemble their pollinators; they were pollinated by those who recognized themselves in the random patterns of our subject. Those flowers that didn&#8217;t attract pollinators simply did not propagate. So the pollinators selected the flowers, that then appealed more to particular pollinators, and round we go. Co-evolution in action.</p>
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		<title>By: Catherine</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/03/16/the-tempting-beauty-of-orchids-and-darwins-insight/#comment-16929</link>
		<dc:creator>Catherine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 07:59:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/03/16/the-tempting-beauty-of-orchids-and-darwins-insight/#comment-16929</guid>
		<description>Spectacular photos!  I have thought a lot about orchids myself, especially one that very closely resembles a bee, colors and all.  I've tried to imagine how the flower could 'know' how to get itself to look like the pollenator it wanted without being able to SEE it?!  I do have a feeling that for you brainiac guys, this is probably kind of a stupid question... could you give me some insight?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spectacular photos!  I have thought a lot about orchids myself, especially one that very closely resembles a bee, colors and all.  I&#8217;ve tried to imagine how the flower could &#8216;know&#8217; how to get itself to look like the pollenator it wanted without being able to SEE it?!  I do have a feeling that for you brainiac guys, this is probably kind of a stupid question&#8230; could you give me some insight?</p>
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		<title>By: grumpypilgrim</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/03/16/the-tempting-beauty-of-orchids-and-darwins-insight/#comment-16920</link>
		<dc:creator>grumpypilgrim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 22:19:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/03/16/the-tempting-beauty-of-orchids-and-darwins-insight/#comment-16920</guid>
		<description>The ability of the theory of evolution to predict as-yet-unfound species is one of the many things that makes it a science and distinguishes it from Biblical creationism.  When everything is miraculously "designed" by a supernatural being, there is no predictive ability, because every species is created independently.

Another example of evolution's predicitive ability can be found in paleontology:  many of the 'missing link' fossils that have been found were predicted well before they were discovered.  The recent discovery of Tiktaalik (a fish that could walk on land) is but one example.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The ability of the theory of evolution to predict as-yet-unfound species is one of the many things that makes it a science and distinguishes it from Biblical creationism.  When everything is miraculously &#8220;designed&#8221; by a supernatural being, there is no predictive ability, because every species is created independently.</p>
<p>Another example of evolution&#8217;s predicitive ability can be found in paleontology:  many of the &#8216;missing link&#8217; fossils that have been found were predicted well before they were discovered.  The recent discovery of Tiktaalik (a fish that could walk on land) is but one example.</p>
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		<title>By: projektleiterin</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/03/16/the-tempting-beauty-of-orchids-and-darwins-insight/#comment-16915</link>
		<dc:creator>projektleiterin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 16:40:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/03/16/the-tempting-beauty-of-orchids-and-darwins-insight/#comment-16915</guid>
		<description>Interesting post!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting post!</p>
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