Comments on: Do the various claims of miracles made by conflicting religions serve as evidence that all such claims are false? http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/03/10/do-the-various-claims-of-miracles-made-by-conflicting-religions-serve-as-evidence-that-all-such-claims-are-false/ Human Animals at the Crossroads of Culture, Science, Religion and Media Fri, 12 Mar 2010 12:58:48 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7.1 hourly 1 By: grumpypilgrim http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/03/10/do-the-various-claims-of-miracles-made-by-conflicting-religions-serve-as-evidence-that-all-such-claims-are-false/comment-page-1/#comment-16767 grumpypilgrim Tue, 11 Mar 2008 23:25:18 +0000 http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/03/10/do-the-various-claims-of-miracles-made-by-conflicting-religions-serve-as-evidence-that-all-such-claims-are-false/#comment-16767 Don't you see? They're *miracles*, so, of course, they can all be true (grin). The very fact that they can't logically happen is what makes them miracles. Don’t you see? They’re *miracles*, so, of course, they can all be true (grin). The very fact that they can’t logically happen is what makes them miracles.

]]> By: HUH? http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/03/10/do-the-various-claims-of-miracles-made-by-conflicting-religions-serve-as-evidence-that-all-such-claims-are-false/comment-page-1/#comment-16738 HUH? Tue, 11 Mar 2008 02:23:45 +0000 http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/03/10/do-the-various-claims-of-miracles-made-by-conflicting-religions-serve-as-evidence-that-all-such-claims-are-false/#comment-16738 "A more relevant analogy would be if all eleven people made different claims about the answer to a given problem, and none of those claims could be objectively checked." Sorry, I don't agree. If a claim cannot be (using your term) "objectively checked," then the claim is no more dubious because eleven people made related (but different) claims than it would be if only one person made the claim. Expressed differently, if I claim that my goldfish transmutted overnight into a Corvette (but my claim cannot be "objectively checked") then my claim is no more or less dubious than if ten other people claim their guppy (or some other fish) transmutted overnight into a Ferrari (or even a Maserati for that matter). “A more relevant analogy would be if all eleven people made different claims about the answer to a given problem, and none of those claims could be objectively checked.”

Sorry, I don’t agree. If a claim cannot be (using your term) “objectively checked,” then the claim is no more dubious because eleven people made related (but different) claims than it would be if only one person made the claim.

Expressed differently, if I claim that my goldfish transmutted overnight into a Corvette (but my claim cannot be “objectively checked”) then my claim is no more or less dubious than if ten other people claim their guppy (or some other fish) transmutted overnight into a Ferrari (or even a Maserati for that matter).

]]> By: Dan Klarmann http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/03/10/do-the-various-claims-of-miracles-made-by-conflicting-religions-serve-as-evidence-that-all-such-claims-are-false/comment-page-1/#comment-16736 Dan Klarmann Tue, 11 Mar 2008 00:28:08 +0000 http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/03/10/do-the-various-claims-of-miracles-made-by-conflicting-religions-serve-as-evidence-that-all-such-claims-are-false/#comment-16736 How about this way: All miracles are true signs of a supernatural existence (deity, afterlife, whatever) that no religion has yet embraced, and is inherently unobservable to instruments. Most of the Miracles cited in the original post are statistically ordinary occurrences that willing minds cast as miraculous because of mis-perception. An image appears to <i>the mind of</i> an observer. This does not mean that something could have been captured by a camera. An event occurs at a particular time following some ritual. That event was inevitable, and the timing was in statistically expected range, but it <b>seemed</b> miraculous. How about this way: All miracles are true signs of a supernatural existence (deity, afterlife, whatever) that no religion has yet embraced, and is inherently unobservable to instruments.

Most of the Miracles cited in the original post are statistically ordinary occurrences that willing minds cast as miraculous because of mis-perception.

An image appears to the mind of an observer. This does not mean that something could have been captured by a camera.

An event occurs at a particular time following some ritual. That event was inevitable, and the timing was in statistically expected range, but it seemed miraculous.

]]> By: Ebonmuse http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/03/10/do-the-various-claims-of-miracles-made-by-conflicting-religions-serve-as-evidence-that-all-such-claims-are-false/comment-page-1/#comment-16735 Ebonmuse Tue, 11 Mar 2008 00:21:45 +0000 http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/03/10/do-the-various-claims-of-miracles-made-by-conflicting-religions-serve-as-evidence-that-all-such-claims-are-false/#comment-16735 A more relevant analogy would be if all eleven people made different claims about the answer to a given problem, and none of those claims could be objectively checked. A more relevant analogy would be if all eleven people made different claims about the answer to a given problem, and none of those claims could be objectively checked.

]]> By: Erich Vieth http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/03/10/do-the-various-claims-of-miracles-made-by-conflicting-religions-serve-as-evidence-that-all-such-claims-are-false/comment-page-1/#comment-16733 Erich Vieth Mon, 10 Mar 2008 21:57:49 +0000 http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/03/10/do-the-various-claims-of-miracles-made-by-conflicting-religions-serve-as-evidence-that-all-such-claims-are-false/#comment-16733 Huh: I had the same thought, but still found this reasoning interesting, as long as one is speaking as a matter of evidence rather than a matter of logical proof. If you are trying to logically prove that a miracle is false by reference to many other questionable claims by competitor religions, that proof fails for the exact reason you mention. Huh: I had the same thought, but still found this reasoning interesting, as long as one is speaking as a matter of evidence rather than a matter of logical proof. If you are trying to logically prove that a miracle is false by reference to many other questionable claims by competitor religions, that proof fails for the exact reason you mention.

]]> By: HUH? http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/03/10/do-the-various-claims-of-miracles-made-by-conflicting-religions-serve-as-evidence-that-all-such-claims-are-false/comment-page-1/#comment-16723 HUH? Mon, 10 Mar 2008 18:01:39 +0000 http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/03/10/do-the-various-claims-of-miracles-made-by-conflicting-religions-serve-as-evidence-that-all-such-claims-are-false/#comment-16723 sorry, but i, um, don't get the logic. if one person says 2 + 2 = 4, and ten other people say 2 plus 2 = 5, does the fact that ten people are wrong mean all eleven are wrong? sorry, but i, um, don’t get the logic.

if one person says 2 + 2 = 4, and ten other people say 2 plus 2 = 5, does the fact that ten people are wrong mean all eleven are wrong?

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