Comments on: What is it like to be dead? http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/02/27/what-is-it-like-to-be-dead/ Human Animals at the Crossroads of Culture, Science, Religion and Media Sat, 10 Jan 2009 00:47:19 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.5 By: Keven http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/02/27/what-is-it-like-to-be-dead/#comment-24785 Keven Tue, 23 Sep 2008 02:02:34 +0000 http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/02/27/what-is-it-like-to-be-dead/#comment-24785 Just putting this out there, I don't know how you can compare heaven to a "sparkly majestic merry-go-round" if that's what your doing. People take things they read in religious books too literally sometimes. They were written many years ago and this is how they wrote. Ill be expecting a sarcastic/satyric response soon because that's what i have seen so far in these peoples views on religion. I hate it when people don't take other peoples beliefs seriously and use cynicism to mock it. Its really sickening. I don't mean any offense to anyone but please don't respond in that way. Just putting this out there, I don’t know how you can compare heaven to a “sparkly majestic merry-go-round” if that’s what your doing. People take things they read in religious books too literally sometimes. They were written many years ago and this is how they wrote. Ill be expecting a sarcastic/satyric response soon because that’s what i have seen so far in these peoples views on religion. I hate it when people don’t take other peoples beliefs seriously and use cynicism to mock it. Its really sickening. I don’t mean any offense to anyone but please don’t respond in that way.

]]> By: davea0511 http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/02/27/what-is-it-like-to-be-dead/#comment-21335 davea0511 Mon, 14 Jul 2008 16:41:08 +0000 http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/02/27/what-is-it-like-to-be-dead/#comment-21335 I think you got most of these people people who believe in an afterlife wrong. In their mind, people are eternal beings and can never be dead, although their bodies may die ... So the question "What's it like to be dead" makes no more sense for them as it makes for you So insult them if you must for holding onto the notion that you can experience being dead ... but you should know that the expression "dead" or "death" is shorthand for "dead to us", and is why they prefer the term "passed" as it more accurately reflects their beliefs. Instead, what they do believe happens at the time of death is exactly what happens is that (as you suggested was possible): "our consciousness will continue. Maybe you’ll instantly be transported to the far side of the moon to ride a sparkly majestic merry-go-round after you’re dead, but there’s no evidence for that or any other version of continued sentience." That said, you are 100% correct that there is no proof that is both tangible and academically credible that a person's consciousness passes on or is transported to somewhere or when or who. I, for one, have read many NDE's and had significant doubts about the more popular and celebrated NDE's (especially when they are used for purposes or in ways other than what I would expect they should be used). I think you got most of these people people who believe in an afterlife wrong. In their mind, people are eternal beings and can never be dead, although their bodies may die …

So the question “What’s it like to be dead” makes no more sense for them as it makes for you

So insult them if you must for holding onto the notion that you can experience being dead … but you should know that the expression “dead” or “death” is shorthand for “dead to us”, and is why they prefer the term “passed” as it more accurately reflects their beliefs.

Instead, what they do believe happens at the time of death is exactly what happens is that (as you suggested was possible):

“our consciousness will continue. Maybe you’ll instantly be transported to the far side of the moon to ride a sparkly majestic merry-go-round after you’re dead, but there’s no evidence for that or any other version of continued sentience.”

That said, you are 100% correct that there is no proof that is both tangible and academically credible that a person’s consciousness passes on or is transported to somewhere or when or who. I, for one, have read many NDE’s and had significant doubts about the more popular and celebrated NDE’s (especially when they are used for purposes or in ways other than what I would expect they should be used).

]]> By: Erich Vieth http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/02/27/what-is-it-like-to-be-dead/#comment-17737 Erich Vieth Fri, 18 Apr 2008 05:24:27 +0000 http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/02/27/what-is-it-like-to-be-dead/#comment-17737 "Death, therefore, the most awful of evils, is nothing to us, seeing that, when we are, death is not come, and, when death is come, we are not." Epicurus http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Epicurus “Death, therefore, the most awful of evils, is nothing to us, seeing that, when we are, death is not come, and, when death is come, we are not.”

Epicurus
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Epicurus

]]> By: Erich Vieth http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/02/27/what-is-it-like-to-be-dead/#comment-16611 Erich Vieth Wed, 05 Mar 2008 23:43:29 +0000 http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/02/27/what-is-it-like-to-be-dead/#comment-16611 Thanks, Mary. Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks, Mary. Glad you enjoyed it.

]]> By: Mary http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/02/27/what-is-it-like-to-be-dead/#comment-16610 Mary Wed, 05 Mar 2008 23:28:44 +0000 http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/02/27/what-is-it-like-to-be-dead/#comment-16610 A post in honor of your post is here, Erich: http://woowooteacup.wordpress.com/2008/03/05/i-dont-know/ I don't know whether you get pingbacks on your blog, so I'm covering an extra possibility here. A post in honor of your post is here, Erich:

http://woowooteacup.wordpress.com/2008/03/05/i-dont-know/

I don’t know whether you get pingbacks on your blog, so I’m covering an extra possibility here.

]]> By: tony http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/02/27/what-is-it-like-to-be-dead/#comment-16494 tony Sat, 01 Mar 2008 16:41:37 +0000 http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/02/27/what-is-it-like-to-be-dead/#comment-16494 Marie, sweetheart, "And of course, the answer is the same as Erich’s - we don’t know." ? I'm telling you, there's nothing. Trust me. I do know. Marie, sweetheart, “And of course, the answer is the same as Erich’s - we don’t know.” ?

I’m telling you, there’s nothing.

Trust me.

I do know.

]]> By: Mary http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/02/27/what-is-it-like-to-be-dead/#comment-16488 Mary Sat, 01 Mar 2008 04:25:38 +0000 http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/02/27/what-is-it-like-to-be-dead/#comment-16488 Well stated, Dan, but it still begs the question, how does this life force that animates us arise? What precisely gives us our spirit? It's the age-old question - the flip side to what happens when we die. And of course, the answer is the same as Erich's - we don't know. But at least we can take some comfort in knowing that some little part of us lives on somewhere in the world, whether it contains the essence of our spirit or not. My way to live past death is through the things I create, which is the legacy you mentioned in an earlier response. The whole not knowing thing makes me keen to be bold in life and do the things I want to do. Betting on a second chance is gambling against the odds. Well stated, Dan, but it still begs the question, how does this life force that animates us arise? What precisely gives us our spirit? It’s the age-old question - the flip side to what happens when we die. And of course, the answer is the same as Erich’s - we don’t know. But at least we can take some comfort in knowing that some little part of us lives on somewhere in the world, whether it contains the essence of our spirit or not.

My way to live past death is through the things I create, which is the legacy you mentioned in an earlier response. The whole not knowing thing makes me keen to be bold in life and do the things I want to do. Betting on a second chance is gambling against the odds.

]]> By: Dan Klarmann http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/02/27/what-is-it-like-to-be-dead/#comment-16475 Dan Klarmann Fri, 29 Feb 2008 13:28:26 +0000 http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/02/27/what-is-it-like-to-be-dead/#comment-16475 Mary: Chemistry and statistics prove a saga of bodily recycling. All of us contain some atoms that were in George Washington and Hitler and Rasputin and Gilgamesh. Every exhalation, every perspiration, and finally decomposition releases atoms from your body into the biosphere. As an adult, you'd be hard pressed to locate a single atom that you had at birth. (Most likely inside some of the neurons in the hind brain; nuclei of neurons don't do much). Also, some relatively rare atoms (isotopes) break down, but the electrons and quarks are simply rearranging. For example, Carbon-14 (of dating fame) becomes stable nitrogen through beta decay. And let's not forget where those atoms came from. The best model to date says that our solar system condensed from the nova of a 3rd generation star (one capable of producing heavy elements like gold and nobelium). Every atom in your body (except some fraction of the hydrogen) has been in at least one, and probably 3 stellar novae. But comparing this to an afterlife is like noting that the bricks in my patio were once parts of houses that each were likely homes to several families. The bricks live on, but the spirit of their earlier use is long lost. Mary: Chemistry and statistics prove a saga of bodily recycling. All of us contain some atoms that were in George Washington and Hitler and Rasputin and Gilgamesh. Every exhalation, every perspiration, and finally decomposition releases atoms from your body into the biosphere. As an adult, you’d be hard pressed to locate a single atom that you had at birth. (Most likely inside some of the neurons in the hind brain; nuclei of neurons don’t do much).

Also, some relatively rare atoms (isotopes) break down, but the electrons and quarks are simply rearranging. For example, Carbon-14 (of dating fame) becomes stable nitrogen through beta decay.

And let’s not forget where those atoms came from. The best model to date says that our solar system condensed from the nova of a 3rd generation star (one capable of producing heavy elements like gold and nobelium). Every atom in your body (except some fraction of the hydrogen) has been in at least one, and probably 3 stellar novae.

But comparing this to an afterlife is like noting that the bricks in my patio were once parts of houses that each were likely homes to several families.
The bricks live on, but the spirit of their earlier use is long lost.

]]> By: Mary http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/02/27/what-is-it-like-to-be-dead/#comment-16466 Mary Fri, 29 Feb 2008 04:10:33 +0000 http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/02/27/what-is-it-like-to-be-dead/#comment-16466 If we were to allow our bodies to decompose naturally, what would happen to all of the atoms that make up our bodies? They've gotta go somewhere, right? If we were to allow our bodies to decompose naturally, what would happen to all of the atoms that make up our bodies? They’ve gotta go somewhere, right?

]]> By: grumpypilgrim http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/02/27/what-is-it-like-to-be-dead/#comment-16460 grumpypilgrim Fri, 29 Feb 2008 00:36:15 +0000 http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/02/27/what-is-it-like-to-be-dead/#comment-16460 To the best of our knowledge, human consciousness is an emergent property of human brain structure, the latter of which is more complex than anything else we know of in our universe. When we die, that brain structure perishes and along with it, again to the best of our knowledge, goes our consciousness. Since many people find such reasoning troubling, they prefer to imagine-into-existence all sorts of alternate beliefs that are more pleasant. One of the most common of these is that they will live on after their corporeal bodies die. Not surprisingly, most major religions encourage and support this superstition, exploiting the benefits that accrue from telling people exactly what they want to hear. Unfortunately for everyone else, religious leaders go one step farther and label this imaginary belief a "certain" outcome for those who follow that leader...but *only* for those who follow that leader: everyone else will burn forever in hellfire. Why religious followers fail to recognize the obvious self-interest of religious leaders who profess such nonsense is a mystery to me. Apparently, the desire to believe in one's own immortality trumps virtually all other considerations. To the best of our knowledge, human consciousness is an emergent property of human brain structure, the latter of which is more complex than anything else we know of in our universe. When we die, that brain structure perishes and along with it, again to the best of our knowledge, goes our consciousness.

Since many people find such reasoning troubling, they prefer to imagine-into-existence all sorts of alternate beliefs that are more pleasant. One of the most common of these is that they will live on after their corporeal bodies die. Not surprisingly, most major religions encourage and support this superstition, exploiting the benefits that accrue from telling people exactly what they want to hear. Unfortunately for everyone else, religious leaders go one step farther and label this imaginary belief a “certain” outcome for those who follow that leader…but *only* for those who follow that leader: everyone else will burn forever in hellfire. Why religious followers fail to recognize the obvious self-interest of religious leaders who profess such nonsense is a mystery to me. Apparently, the desire to believe in one’s own immortality trumps virtually all other considerations.

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