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	<title>Comments on: WordPress upgrade for Dangerous Intersection</title>
	<atom:link href="http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/02/12/test-2/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/02/12/test-2/</link>
	<description>Human Animals at the Crossroads of Culture, Science, Religion and Media</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 04:26:16 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3</generator>
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		<title>By: projektleiterin</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/02/12/test-2/#comment-16220</link>
		<dc:creator>projektleiterin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 20:16:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/02/12/test-2/#comment-16220</guid>
		<description>I'd like to be able to change my avatar myself. Would that be possible to set up, too?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d like to be able to change my avatar myself. Would that be possible to set up, too?</p>
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		<title>By: Vicki Baker</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/02/12/test-2/#comment-16146</link>
		<dc:creator>Vicki Baker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 19:44:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/02/12/test-2/#comment-16146</guid>
		<description>Hey, I think Erich is doing a great job too, and my point is simply the same as PL's - you can moderate after the fact. (Great minds think alike, no? :D) I'm not for anything goes and no holds barred. If holding the comments is what works for our gracious host, then don't mess with it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, I think Erich is doing a great job too, and my point is simply the same as PL&#8217;s - you can moderate after the fact. (Great minds think alike, no? :D) I&#8217;m not for anything goes and no holds barred. If holding the comments is what works for our gracious host, then don&#8217;t mess with it.</p>
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		<title>By: projektleiterin</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/02/12/test-2/#comment-16142</link>
		<dc:creator>projektleiterin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 17:51:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/02/12/test-2/#comment-16142</guid>
		<description>Nobody was against moderation. Despite my desperate attempts to show people the sweet me I piss people off quite often and their replies are usually &lt;em&gt;not&lt;/em&gt; nice. The fun stops for me when people start calling names, no, actually I draw the line when people become passive-aggressive or make insinuations, I'm somewhat sensitive about this stuff, so I usually do appreciate intervention through moderators. It gives these people a very clear signal about what is considered appropriate and what not, nevertheless I prefer post-comment moderation, not before (and I know plenty of blogs where people write about very controversial topics).

And anyway, Vicki is on my side, that's all that counts, guys. :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nobody was against moderation. Despite my desperate attempts to show people the sweet me I piss people off quite often and their replies are usually <em>not</em> nice. The fun stops for me when people start calling names, no, actually I draw the line when people become passive-aggressive or make insinuations, I&#8217;m somewhat sensitive about this stuff, so I usually do appreciate intervention through moderators. It gives these people a very clear signal about what is considered appropriate and what not, nevertheless I prefer post-comment moderation, not before (and I know plenty of blogs where people write about very controversial topics).</p>
<p>And anyway, Vicki is on my side, that&#8217;s all that counts, guys. <img src='http://dangerousintersection.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Mike Pulcinella</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/02/12/test-2/#comment-16139</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Pulcinella</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 13:58:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/02/12/test-2/#comment-16139</guid>
		<description>Lax moderation is the death of a forum. I have had personal experience with good people being driven off of forums where anything goes, leaving only adolescent trolls seeking "melt-downs" and LOLZ.

This is a tough call because we who regularly visit here generally tend to be the kind who want to limit censorship, yet someone must take responsibility for seeing that the purpose of a forum remains focused.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lax moderation is the death of a forum. I have had personal experience with good people being driven off of forums where anything goes, leaving only adolescent trolls seeking &#8220;melt-downs&#8221; and LOLZ.</p>
<p>This is a tough call because we who regularly visit here generally tend to be the kind who want to limit censorship, yet someone must take responsibility for seeing that the purpose of a forum remains focused.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Klarmann</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/02/12/test-2/#comment-16135</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Klarmann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 03:26:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/02/12/test-2/#comment-16135</guid>
		<description>Speaking of the eff word, some filter programs and filtered site searches might block the entire site if it finds the word too often here.

Presently, I find it only 4 times in our responses, and once in a Word file, but what is the cut-off?

I remember the hoo-rah over libraries blocking access to Superbowl 30 sites ("Superbowl XXX"), not to mention Dick van Dyke fan pages, because of their subscription filtering programs back in the 1990's.

The DI spam filter is a very new addition, and needs to be broken in, taught. (As in teaching, not tightness). Eventually Erich may trust it, and scan new posts after they immediately go live rather than pre-approving them. 

I am privy to the editing process here. Erich has been doing a banner job of manually blocking spam responses. These guys are clever. I see many responses fool the filters and get into Erich's response queue. Only once did I catch him promoting a spam response. One that almost could be read as being related to the post itself (except for the link to a paid links page). Erich is not counting all of these denied spams in his "denied" count.

Meanwhile, let's remember that this is a letter forum, not a chat room.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of the eff word, some filter programs and filtered site searches might block the entire site if it finds the word too often here.</p>
<p>Presently, I find it only 4 times in our responses, and once in a Word file, but what is the cut-off?</p>
<p>I remember the hoo-rah over libraries blocking access to Superbowl 30 sites (&#8221;Superbowl XXX&#8221;), not to mention Dick van Dyke fan pages, because of their subscription filtering programs back in the 1990&#8217;s.</p>
<p>The DI spam filter is a very new addition, and needs to be broken in, taught. (As in teaching, not tightness). Eventually Erich may trust it, and scan new posts after they immediately go live rather than pre-approving them. </p>
<p>I am privy to the editing process here. Erich has been doing a banner job of manually blocking spam responses. These guys are clever. I see many responses fool the filters and get into Erich&#8217;s response queue. Only once did I catch him promoting a spam response. One that almost could be read as being related to the post itself (except for the link to a paid links page). Erich is not counting all of these denied spams in his &#8220;denied&#8221; count.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, let&#8217;s remember that this is a letter forum, not a chat room.</p>
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		<title>By: projektleiterin</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/02/12/test-2/#comment-16130</link>
		<dc:creator>projektleiterin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2008 22:52:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/02/12/test-2/#comment-16130</guid>
		<description>I didn't say that you censor too much, Erich, but I do think that having comments appear in real time without delay will create more dynamic discussions. Compare snailmail and email. Of course you can converse with someone via regular letters, but most people probably prefer more immediate interactions, it would not always be possible here as people are not always online at the same time, but if given a choice, I assume that most will choose the quicker option. It's just something you might want to consider in respect to gaining more traffic - more real time interaction, more people who want to participate. On the other hand a blog that is fairly safe for kids to read or where comments stay on topic might also be something that a lot of people appreciate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t say that you censor too much, Erich, but I do think that having comments appear in real time without delay will create more dynamic discussions. Compare snailmail and email. Of course you can converse with someone via regular letters, but most people probably prefer more immediate interactions, it would not always be possible here as people are not always online at the same time, but if given a choice, I assume that most will choose the quicker option. It&#8217;s just something you might want to consider in respect to gaining more traffic - more real time interaction, more people who want to participate. On the other hand a blog that is fairly safe for kids to read or where comments stay on topic might also be something that a lot of people appreciate.</p>
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		<title>By: Erich Vieth</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/02/12/test-2/#comment-16128</link>
		<dc:creator>Erich Vieth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2008 18:38:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/02/12/test-2/#comment-16128</guid>
		<description>Vicki:  I believe that I need to continue moderating comments because:

1. The spam filters don't actually catch all the spam.   There are probably about 30 spams that slip through the filters every month.  I manually kick those out.

2.  The non-spam comments I've booted have sometimes been rejected because they were not on-point, they constituted personal attacks or they were arguably slanderous (and I don't want to be sued--&lt;a href="http://w2.eff.org/bloggers/lg/faq-defamation.php" rel="nofollow"&gt;see here for some basics on defamation law&lt;/a&gt;).   Also, some of those rejected comments have been long meandering usually incoherent diatribes that, I guarantee, no one at this site would take the time to read.

3. The things I've kicked out have not been close calls at all.  Anyone earnestly trying to comment on a post has seen their comment published here.  

4. Where the comment is earnest, but contains something inappropriate (a personal attack, for instance), I've edited out the personal attack or I've sent it back to the commenter for a self-edit, promising to publish it, if corrected according to the comment policy.  

5. Call me a prude, but I've sometimes (maybe another 50 times, total) clipped out offensive language.  I know for a fact that some children visit this blog.  I can assure you, though, that words like "damn," "crap," "shit," "piss" and "fuck" don't offend me.  I don't think that reading such words harms children either.  But excessive use of such words can annoy readers and detract from the content of the comment.  The test for me is whether the commenter is earnestly responding to the post rather than trying to draw attention to himself/herself through the use of coarse language.  

You might think that 50-100 inappropriate comments coming through would open things up for the better, but I believe that those sorts of comments can also set an inappropriate tone for other commenters.   I think that 50-100 rejected non-spam comments out of 8,000 is already wide-open.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vicki:  I believe that I need to continue moderating comments because:</p>
<p>1. The spam filters don&#8217;t actually catch all the spam.   There are probably about 30 spams that slip through the filters every month.  I manually kick those out.</p>
<p>2.  The non-spam comments I&#8217;ve booted have sometimes been rejected because they were not on-point, they constituted personal attacks or they were arguably slanderous (and I don&#8217;t want to be sued&#8211;<a href="http://w2.eff.org/bloggers/lg/faq-defamation.php" rel="nofollow">see here for some basics on defamation law</a>).   Also, some of those rejected comments have been long meandering usually incoherent diatribes that, I guarantee, no one at this site would take the time to read.</p>
<p>3. The things I&#8217;ve kicked out have not been close calls at all.  Anyone earnestly trying to comment on a post has seen their comment published here.  </p>
<p>4. Where the comment is earnest, but contains something inappropriate (a personal attack, for instance), I&#8217;ve edited out the personal attack or I&#8217;ve sent it back to the commenter for a self-edit, promising to publish it, if corrected according to the comment policy.  </p>
<p>5. Call me a prude, but I&#8217;ve sometimes (maybe another 50 times, total) clipped out offensive language.  I know for a fact that some children visit this blog.  I can assure you, though, that words like &#8220;damn,&#8221; &#8220;crap,&#8221; &#8220;shit,&#8221; &#8220;piss&#8221; and &#8220;fuck&#8221; don&#8217;t offend me.  I don&#8217;t think that reading such words harms children either.  But excessive use of such words can annoy readers and detract from the content of the comment.  The test for me is whether the commenter is earnestly responding to the post rather than trying to draw attention to himself/herself through the use of coarse language.  </p>
<p>You might think that 50-100 inappropriate comments coming through would open things up for the better, but I believe that those sorts of comments can also set an inappropriate tone for other commenters.   I think that 50-100 rejected non-spam comments out of 8,000 is already wide-open.</p>
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		<title>By: Vicki Baker</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/02/12/test-2/#comment-16127</link>
		<dc:creator>Vicki Baker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2008 17:55:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/02/12/test-2/#comment-16127</guid>
		<description>But Erich, that's what the anti-spam program is for - it catches those Viagra ads so they don't get posted. If you've only manually disallowed 20-50 comments and are posting almost all the comments you receive that aren't automatically caught by the spam filter, why not go ahead and dispense with moderating?
I agree with PL that it might make discussions more dynamic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But Erich, that&#8217;s what the anti-spam program is for - it catches those Viagra ads so they don&#8217;t get posted. If you&#8217;ve only manually disallowed 20-50 comments and are posting almost all the comments you receive that aren&#8217;t automatically caught by the spam filter, why not go ahead and dispense with moderating?<br />
I agree with PL that it might make discussions more dynamic.</p>
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		<title>By: Erich Vieth</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/02/12/test-2/#comment-16126</link>
		<dc:creator>Erich Vieth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2008 16:12:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/02/12/test-2/#comment-16126</guid>
		<description>Proj:  Nick wasn't considering a new banner image.  We just stuck that image in this post to alert people that we were having some technical issues.

On the comments:  I rarely disallow a comment.   This blog has been running for almost 2 years.   We've received almost 8,000 legitimate comments (not spam).   I would bet that I've disallowed maybe twenty, certainly no more than 50 comments during the life of the blog.  Those disallowed comments constituted personal attacks, salacious comments and a few dissertations that people slapped in, long meandering works that were obviously written before the post existed.    Several of those were disallowed only after one of more co-authors questioned them (after they were initially posted).  Therefore, we are posting almost all of the comments we receive. 

I'd bet you'd be surprised to learn that our new anti-spam program (installed a month ago) has already snagged 6,000 spams.   How many advertisements for Viagra would you like posted in our comments?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Proj:  Nick wasn&#8217;t considering a new banner image.  We just stuck that image in this post to alert people that we were having some technical issues.</p>
<p>On the comments:  I rarely disallow a comment.   This blog has been running for almost 2 years.   We&#8217;ve received almost 8,000 legitimate comments (not spam).   I would bet that I&#8217;ve disallowed maybe twenty, certainly no more than 50 comments during the life of the blog.  Those disallowed comments constituted personal attacks, salacious comments and a few dissertations that people slapped in, long meandering works that were obviously written before the post existed.    Several of those were disallowed only after one of more co-authors questioned them (after they were initially posted).  Therefore, we are posting almost all of the comments we receive. </p>
<p>I&#8217;d bet you&#8217;d be surprised to learn that our new anti-spam program (installed a month ago) has already snagged 6,000 spams.   How many advertisements for Viagra would you like posted in our comments?</p>
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		<title>By: projektleiterin</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/02/12/test-2/#comment-16124</link>
		<dc:creator>projektleiterin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2008 15:55:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/02/12/test-2/#comment-16124</guid>
		<description>I want to keep the old banner image, it's less obtrusive than this one with the big url. And could we consider giving up moderating the comments? It would make the ongoing discussions a bit more dynamic. Maybe we would get a bit more spam here or there and some comments might be out of line, but these could be easily reported and in general I think the benefits outweigh the negative.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I want to keep the old banner image, it&#8217;s less obtrusive than this one with the big url. And could we consider giving up moderating the comments? It would make the ongoing discussions a bit more dynamic. Maybe we would get a bit more spam here or there and some comments might be out of line, but these could be easily reported and in general I think the benefits outweigh the negative.</p>
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