<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Is America a Christian Nation?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/11/28/is-america-a-christian-nation/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/11/28/is-america-a-christian-nation/</link>
	<description>Human Animals at the Crossroads of Culture, Science, Religion and Media</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 20:25:30 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3</generator>
		<item>
		<title>By: grumpypilgrim</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/11/28/is-america-a-christian-nation/#comment-24125</link>
		<dc:creator>grumpypilgrim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 21:20:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=1847#comment-24125</guid>
		<description>Alvin Ambers:  I have not researched your assertions to see if you have accurately reflected the statements of (some of) the people who wrote the U.S. Constitution, but I do know that when it came time to sign the final version of that document, they quite clearly rejected the notion of a national religion.  Indeed, those guys said a lot of things that never made it into the final draft, and they also compromised and left many sections deliberately ambiguous because it was the only way they could reach agreement on the final draft.  Given all these uncertainties about what they truly "intended," there simply is no valid basis upon which to pick and choose among the things they said but didn't codify.  As Erich points out, the only valid landmark we have is the document itself, and it expressly rejects the notion of an officially, government-sanctioned religion.  

Moreover, although it is true that everyone who works in any job inevitably carries their experiences and beliefs, including their spiritual beliefs, there is obviously a vast difference between having the freedom to entertain personal spiritual beliefs in the privacy of one's mind and (mis)using the power of the state to impose those beliefs on the other citizens of that state.  In this regard, religion poses what is arguably the greatest threat to democracy:  a mindset that ignores (indeed, vilifies, even demonizes) the wishes of the minority.  When religious believers declare themselves to be the sole arbiters of public morality, public immorality (war, genocide, torture, The Inquisition, etc.) will almost surely follow.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alvin Ambers:  I have not researched your assertions to see if you have accurately reflected the statements of (some of) the people who wrote the U.S. Constitution, but I do know that when it came time to sign the final version of that document, they quite clearly rejected the notion of a national religion.  Indeed, those guys said a lot of things that never made it into the final draft, and they also compromised and left many sections deliberately ambiguous because it was the only way they could reach agreement on the final draft.  Given all these uncertainties about what they truly &#8220;intended,&#8221; there simply is no valid basis upon which to pick and choose among the things they said but didn&#8217;t codify.  As Erich points out, the only valid landmark we have is the document itself, and it expressly rejects the notion of an officially, government-sanctioned religion.  </p>
<p>Moreover, although it is true that everyone who works in any job inevitably carries their experiences and beliefs, including their spiritual beliefs, there is obviously a vast difference between having the freedom to entertain personal spiritual beliefs in the privacy of one&#8217;s mind and (mis)using the power of the state to impose those beliefs on the other citizens of that state.  In this regard, religion poses what is arguably the greatest threat to democracy:  a mindset that ignores (indeed, vilifies, even demonizes) the wishes of the minority.  When religious believers declare themselves to be the sole arbiters of public morality, public immorality (war, genocide, torture, The Inquisition, etc.) will almost surely follow.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Erich Vieth</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/11/28/is-america-a-christian-nation/#comment-24113</link>
		<dc:creator>Erich Vieth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 16:08:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=1847#comment-24113</guid>
		<description>Alvin Ambers:  Even if the U.S. Constitution establishes a national religion, it certainly doesn't establish a "Christian" nation.   The word Christian does not appear in the Constitution.  Nor does the word "Jesus."  Your interpretation is consistent with the U.S. being a Muslim Nation, a Mormon Nation or a Hindu Nation.

I've printed your comment in full, even though you haven't included any links to the material you've cited.  I leave it to readers to double-check to make sure that your historical assertions are accurate.   In the meantime, I would urge you to provide links to reputable sites to substantiate this material.

As an attorney, I am well aware that there is a maxim in law that when interpreting enacted law, the first and only method, when the meaning seems clear from the words themselves, is to rely only on the words themselves.  With that maxim in mind, you need to go to the source and reconsider the exact wording of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.  Ask yourself how it is that those words establish a national religion, where non-believers are made second-class citizens or where Jesus is honored as a Divine. The founding fathers certainly knew all about the many claims regarding the alleged divinity of Jesus.  They all knew about the Bible.  Many of them were, to some extent, religious.  As you can see by a &lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution" rel="nofollow"&gt;simple and quick reading of the First Amendment,&lt;/a&gt; all of these questions are fully answered:



&lt;blockquote&gt;Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.&lt;/blockquote&gt;



As the U.S. Supreme Court held in Board of Education of &lt;em&gt;Kiryas Joel Village School District v. Grumet, &lt;/em&gt;512 U.S. 687 (1994), the government "should not prefer one religion to another, or religion to irreligion".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alvin Ambers:  Even if the U.S. Constitution establishes a national religion, it certainly doesn&#8217;t establish a &#8220;Christian&#8221; nation.   The word Christian does not appear in the Constitution.  Nor does the word &#8220;Jesus.&#8221;  Your interpretation is consistent with the U.S. being a Muslim Nation, a Mormon Nation or a Hindu Nation.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve printed your comment in full, even though you haven&#8217;t included any links to the material you&#8217;ve cited.  I leave it to readers to double-check to make sure that your historical assertions are accurate.   In the meantime, I would urge you to provide links to reputable sites to substantiate this material.</p>
<p>As an attorney, I am well aware that there is a maxim in law that when interpreting enacted law, the first and only method, when the meaning seems clear from the words themselves, is to rely only on the words themselves.  With that maxim in mind, you need to go to the source and reconsider the exact wording of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.  Ask yourself how it is that those words establish a national religion, where non-believers are made second-class citizens or where Jesus is honored as a Divine. The founding fathers certainly knew all about the many claims regarding the alleged divinity of Jesus.  They all knew about the Bible.  Many of them were, to some extent, religious.  As you can see by a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution" rel="nofollow">simple and quick reading of the First Amendment,</a> all of these questions are fully answered:</p>
<blockquote><p>Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.</p></blockquote>
<p>As the U.S. Supreme Court held in Board of Education of <em>Kiryas Joel Village School District v. Grumet, </em>512 U.S. 687 (1994), the government &#8220;should not prefer one religion to another, or religion to irreligion&#8221;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Alvin Ambers</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/11/28/is-america-a-christian-nation/#comment-24105</link>
		<dc:creator>Alvin Ambers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 05:57:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=1847#comment-24105</guid>
		<description>That was a convoluted concoction of rhetoric with little if any substance. I am posting some of the minutes from the Congressional sessions on the proposed First Amendment which any objective reading of can leave NO DOUBT what the founding father's intentions were. Banning religion from government was probably the farthest thing from their minds. I have more examples of public and private statements by some members which supports the view that God was ESSENTIAL to America in every way, including government and school. I don't expect the facts to change the minds of those who are intent of banning God (Christian one anyway), but I believe in these minutes an objective mind will see the truth of the matter, and all the denial in the world will not change the facts. I had posted this on another web-site.

The Amendment to the Third Article reads:


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech,
or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to
petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Some people quote the "wall of separation" statement as if it was written
into the Constitution. It wasn't.
Thomas Jefferson said: 'I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of
the whole American people [the First Amendment] which declared that their
legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation
between Church &#38; State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of
the nation IN BEHALF OF THE RIGHTS OF CONSCIENCE....." (emphasis added). Jefferson's statement actually addressed the concern that GOVERNMENT could attempt to disallow or ban RELIGION, thereby infringing upon the rights of
the people to have and EXPRESS their religion.
From the 1789 Congressional debates on the "no establishment of religion"
Amendment, these are the most pertinent thoughts as expressed by members
regarding the core intention of the Amendment. These expressions reveal
that core intention to be that no particular DENOMINATION would be
established as the official NATIONAL RELIGION. I have highlighted the
essential words and phrases in all capital letters.
Mr. SYLVESTER had some doubts of the propriety of the mode of expression used in this paragraph. He apprehended that it was liable to a construction different from what had been made by the committee. HE FEARED IT MIGHT BE THOUGHT TO ABOLISH RELIGION ALTOGETHER.
Mr. GERRY said it would read better if it was no religious DOCTRINE shall
be established by law.
Mr. MADISON said he apprehended the meaning of the words to be, that
Congress should not establish a religion, and enforce the legal observation
of it by law, nor compel men to worship God in any manner CONTRARY TO THEIR
CONSCIENCE. Whether the words are necessary or not, he did not mean to say,
but they had been required by some of the state conventions, who seemed to
entertain an opinion, that under the clause of the Constitution, which gave
power to Congress to make all laws necessary and proper to carry into
execution the constitution, and the laws made under it, enabled them to
make laws of such a nature as might infringe the rights of conscience, and
establish a NATIONAL RELIGION; to prevent these effects he presumed the
amendment was intended, and he thought it as well expressed as the nature of the language would admit.
Mr. HUNTINGTON said . . . By the charter of Rhode Island, no religion could
be established by law; he could give a history of the effects of such a
regulation; indeed the people were now enjoying the blessed fruits of it.
He hoped, therefore, the amendment would be made in such a way as to secure
the rights of conscience, and the free exercise of religion, BUT NOT TO
PATRONIZE THOSE WHO PROFESSED NO RELIGION AT ALL.
Mr. MADISON thought, if the word 'NATIONAL' was inserted before religion,
it would satisfy the minds of honorable gentlemen. He believed that the
people feared one sect might obtain a pre-eminence, or two combined
together, and establish a religion, to which they would compel others to
conform. He thought if the word 'National' was introduced, IT WOULD POINT
THE AMENDMENT DIRECTLY TO THE OBJECT IT WAS INTENDED TO PREVENT.

The intention was, although back then there weren't as many different
denominations as there are now, to not establish, say, the Baptist Church as being the official church of the United States. This is abundantly clear in a
reading of the member's statements and concerns. It also makes perfect sense as many knew all too well the oppression that could result because England had an official state church (The Church of England). Further, to reiterate, the
PROTECTION was imbued to Faith (religion) to prevent it being usurped by the GOVERNMENT. This is precisely what is being done now when some are distorting the Constitution to ban the Ten Commandments and mention of God in school, etc.
There are NUMEROUS statements by these same men and others admnishing that God was a NECESSARY element to American life and Government. There is no real controversy about what the Constitution and the intent behind it was. The only controversy is that created by the lying claims of some that our Constitution intended no place for religion in Government or public expression.
Let no one tell you that America was not and is not a Christian Nation, or that Judeo-Christians have no right to express and exercise the Faith in any and EVERY venue of life, INCLUDING Government.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That was a convoluted concoction of rhetoric with little if any substance. I am posting some of the minutes from the Congressional sessions on the proposed First Amendment which any objective reading of can leave NO DOUBT what the founding father&#8217;s intentions were. Banning religion from government was probably the farthest thing from their minds. I have more examples of public and private statements by some members which supports the view that God was ESSENTIAL to America in every way, including government and school. I don&#8217;t expect the facts to change the minds of those who are intent of banning God (Christian one anyway), but I believe in these minutes an objective mind will see the truth of the matter, and all the denial in the world will not change the facts. I had posted this on another web-site.</p>
<p>The Amendment to the Third Article reads:</p>
<p>Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or<br />
prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech,<br />
or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to<br />
petition the government for a redress of grievances.</p>
<p>Some people quote the &#8220;wall of separation&#8221; statement as if it was written<br />
into the Constitution. It wasn&#8217;t.<br />
Thomas Jefferson said: &#8216;I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of<br />
the whole American people [the First Amendment] which declared that their<br />
legislature should &#8220;make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or<br />
prohibiting the free exercise thereof,&#8221; thus building a wall of separation<br />
between Church &amp; State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of<br />
the nation IN BEHALF OF THE RIGHTS OF CONSCIENCE&#8230;..&#8221; (emphasis added). Jefferson&#8217;s statement actually addressed the concern that GOVERNMENT could attempt to disallow or ban RELIGION, thereby infringing upon the rights of<br />
the people to have and EXPRESS their religion.<br />
From the 1789 Congressional debates on the &#8220;no establishment of religion&#8221;<br />
Amendment, these are the most pertinent thoughts as expressed by members<br />
regarding the core intention of the Amendment. These expressions reveal<br />
that core intention to be that no particular DENOMINATION would be<br />
established as the official NATIONAL RELIGION. I have highlighted the<br />
essential words and phrases in all capital letters.<br />
Mr. SYLVESTER had some doubts of the propriety of the mode of expression used in this paragraph. He apprehended that it was liable to a construction different from what had been made by the committee. HE FEARED IT MIGHT BE THOUGHT TO ABOLISH RELIGION ALTOGETHER.<br />
Mr. GERRY said it would read better if it was no religious DOCTRINE shall<br />
be established by law.<br />
Mr. MADISON said he apprehended the meaning of the words to be, that<br />
Congress should not establish a religion, and enforce the legal observation<br />
of it by law, nor compel men to worship God in any manner CONTRARY TO THEIR<br />
CONSCIENCE. Whether the words are necessary or not, he did not mean to say,<br />
but they had been required by some of the state conventions, who seemed to<br />
entertain an opinion, that under the clause of the Constitution, which gave<br />
power to Congress to make all laws necessary and proper to carry into<br />
execution the constitution, and the laws made under it, enabled them to<br />
make laws of such a nature as might infringe the rights of conscience, and<br />
establish a NATIONAL RELIGION; to prevent these effects he presumed the<br />
amendment was intended, and he thought it as well expressed as the nature of the language would admit.<br />
Mr. HUNTINGTON said . . . By the charter of Rhode Island, no religion could<br />
be established by law; he could give a history of the effects of such a<br />
regulation; indeed the people were now enjoying the blessed fruits of it.<br />
He hoped, therefore, the amendment would be made in such a way as to secure<br />
the rights of conscience, and the free exercise of religion, BUT NOT TO<br />
PATRONIZE THOSE WHO PROFESSED NO RELIGION AT ALL.<br />
Mr. MADISON thought, if the word &#8216;NATIONAL&#8217; was inserted before religion,<br />
it would satisfy the minds of honorable gentlemen. He believed that the<br />
people feared one sect might obtain a pre-eminence, or two combined<br />
together, and establish a religion, to which they would compel others to<br />
conform. He thought if the word &#8216;National&#8217; was introduced, IT WOULD POINT<br />
THE AMENDMENT DIRECTLY TO THE OBJECT IT WAS INTENDED TO PREVENT.</p>
<p>The intention was, although back then there weren&#8217;t as many different<br />
denominations as there are now, to not establish, say, the Baptist Church as being the official church of the United States. This is abundantly clear in a<br />
reading of the member&#8217;s statements and concerns. It also makes perfect sense as many knew all too well the oppression that could result because England had an official state church (The Church of England). Further, to reiterate, the<br />
PROTECTION was imbued to Faith (religion) to prevent it being usurped by the GOVERNMENT. This is precisely what is being done now when some are distorting the Constitution to ban the Ten Commandments and mention of God in school, etc.<br />
There are NUMEROUS statements by these same men and others admnishing that God was a NECESSARY element to American life and Government. There is no real controversy about what the Constitution and the intent behind it was. The only controversy is that created by the lying claims of some that our Constitution intended no place for religion in Government or public expression.<br />
Let no one tell you that America was not and is not a Christian Nation, or that Judeo-Christians have no right to express and exercise the Faith in any and EVERY venue of life, INCLUDING Government.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dan Klarmann</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/11/28/is-america-a-christian-nation/#comment-16110</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Klarmann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 16:23:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=1847#comment-16110</guid>
		<description>Imagine a double feature of "Religulous" and Ben Stein's "&lt;a href="http://www.standupuga.org/content/ben-stein%2526%2523039%3Bs-movie-about-evolutionist-conspiracy" target="_blank" title="About Expelled" rel="nofollow"&gt;EXPELLED: No Intelligence Allowed&lt;/a&gt;", that documents the persecution of Creationists in the science world.

But I haven't seen an actual double feature since the Tivoli (local repertory cinema with 7 different double features a week in the 1970's and 1980's) went multiplex.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Imagine a double feature of &#8220;Religulous&#8221; and Ben Stein&#8217;s &#8220;<a href="http://www.standupuga.org/content/ben-stein%2526%2523039%3Bs-movie-about-evolutionist-conspiracy" target="_blank" title="About Expelled" rel="nofollow">EXPELLED: No Intelligence Allowed</a>&#8220;, that documents the persecution of Creationists in the science world.</p>
<p>But I haven&#8217;t seen an actual double feature since the Tivoli (local repertory cinema with 7 different double features a week in the 1970&#8217;s and 1980&#8217;s) went multiplex.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mike Pulcinella</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/11/28/is-america-a-christian-nation/#comment-16108</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Pulcinella</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 15:00:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=1847#comment-16108</guid>
		<description>I'm looking forward to seeing Religulous very much! Do I think that it will start an agnostics revolution? No. Despite the statistic that Maher presents that 20% of all young people are doubters, one must never underestimate the power of fear and inertia.

In my experience most strongly religious people are abjectly and horrifyingly in terror of the Great Abyss. So much so that they will accept any ludicrous claim as long as they are promised a reprieve from oblivion.

Most of the rest (again, this is in my experience) are just lazy. They don't really give a s**t one way or the other. It's just something they do so the wife won't get mad or they won't seem like a weirdo. 

This documentary will do little to affect either kind of religious person.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m looking forward to seeing Religulous very much! Do I think that it will start an agnostics revolution? No. Despite the statistic that Maher presents that 20% of all young people are doubters, one must never underestimate the power of fear and inertia.</p>
<p>In my experience most strongly religious people are abjectly and horrifyingly in terror of the Great Abyss. So much so that they will accept any ludicrous claim as long as they are promised a reprieve from oblivion.</p>
<p>Most of the rest (again, this is in my experience) are just lazy. They don&#8217;t really give a s**t one way or the other. It&#8217;s just something they do so the wife won&#8217;t get mad or they won&#8217;t seem like a weirdo. </p>
<p>This documentary will do little to affect either kind of religious person.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Erich Vieth</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/11/28/is-america-a-christian-nation/#comment-16100</link>
		<dc:creator>Erich Vieth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 05:16:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=1847#comment-16100</guid>
		<description>Here's another Bill Maher video on religion.  Maher is behind Religulous, a documentary critical of religion. &lt;a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-4QIvygFmc  " rel="nofollow"&gt;Here's Maher discussing it.&lt;/a&gt;  Religulous will be released about Easter, 2008. Maher argues that "We need a person of doubt in the White House."  &lt;a href="http://richarddawkins.net/article,1540,Bill-Maher-Making-New-Documentary-Movie-Religulous,Larry-King-Live-Bill-Maher  " rel="nofollow"&gt;Here is another exerpt &lt;/a&gt;of Maher discussing his documentary with Larry King. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s another Bill Maher video on religion.  Maher is behind Religulous, a documentary critical of religion. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-4QIvygFmc  " rel="nofollow">Here&#8217;s Maher discussing it.</a>  Religulous will be released about Easter, 2008. Maher argues that &#8220;We need a person of doubt in the White House.&#8221;  <a href="http://richarddawkins.net/article,1540,Bill-Maher-Making-New-Documentary-Movie-Religulous,Larry-King-Live-Bill-Maher  " rel="nofollow">Here is another exerpt </a>of Maher discussing his documentary with Larry King.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dan Klarmann</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/11/28/is-america-a-christian-nation/#comment-15189</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Klarmann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 02:09:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=1847#comment-15189</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;"[Separation of Church and State] was not a sop to Jews or Muslims or ACLU atheists. It was developed to keep some Christians from ruling the consciences of other Christians"&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;a href="http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/casey/5352710.html" target="_blank" title="Why science needs history" rel="nofollow"&gt;This article from the Houston Chronicle&lt;/a&gt; lists many events of the early, "more Christian" America that make me glad that we have less Christian values now than then. Or arguably more, depending on whose version of "Christian" we are using.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>&#8220;[Separation of Church and State] was not a sop to Jews or Muslims or ACLU atheists. It was developed to keep some Christians from ruling the consciences of other Christians&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p><a href="http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/casey/5352710.html" target="_blank" title="Why science needs history" rel="nofollow">This article from the Houston Chronicle</a> lists many events of the early, &#8220;more Christian&#8221; America that make me glad that we have less Christian values now than then. Or arguably more, depending on whose version of &#8220;Christian&#8221; we are using.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: grumpypilgrim</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/11/28/is-america-a-christian-nation/#comment-15148</link>
		<dc:creator>grumpypilgrim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Dec 2007 20:29:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=1847#comment-15148</guid>
		<description>A couple of thoughts:

1)  I find it utterly absurd that Christian fundies should be discussing this issue at all, as if American federal government policy in the 21st century should hinge upon whether or not George Washington took communion more than two centuries ago.

2)  The fact that Christian fundies are so vigorously pursuing their goals through political means speaks volumes about their inability to achieve their goals through non-political means; i.e., prayer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A couple of thoughts:</p>
<p>1)  I find it utterly absurd that Christian fundies should be discussing this issue at all, as if American federal government policy in the 21st century should hinge upon whether or not George Washington took communion more than two centuries ago.</p>
<p>2)  The fact that Christian fundies are so vigorously pursuing their goals through political means speaks volumes about their inability to achieve their goals through non-political means; i.e., prayer.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dwight</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/11/28/is-america-a-christian-nation/#comment-15119</link>
		<dc:creator>Dwight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2007 00:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=1847#comment-15119</guid>
		<description>It's specifically dishonest of ObjectiveMinistries to claim that the postscript to the Constitution beginning "Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States ..." is part of Article VII. It is clearly not, as can be seen in this &lt;a href="http://www.archives.gov/education/lessons/constitution-workshop/images/Constitution_Pg4of4_AC-l.jpg" rel="nofollow"&gt;facsimile of the last page&lt;/a&gt; of the Constitution. In fact, immediately after Article VII comes the errata, not the postscript they quote, and it clearly does not belong to Article VII either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s specifically dishonest of ObjectiveMinistries to claim that the postscript to the Constitution beginning &#8220;Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States &#8230;&#8221; is part of Article VII. It is clearly not, as can be seen in this <a href="http://www.archives.gov/education/lessons/constitution-workshop/images/Constitution_Pg4of4_AC-l.jpg" rel="nofollow">facsimile of the last page</a> of the Constitution. In fact, immediately after Article VII comes the errata, not the postscript they quote, and it clearly does not belong to Article VII either.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/11/28/is-america-a-christian-nation/#comment-15109</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 17:18:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=1847#comment-15109</guid>
		<description>I thought America was a Mormon Nation?

    I asked Mr. Romney whether he would consider including qualified Americans of the Islamic faith in his cabinet as advisers on national security matters, given his position that "jihadism" is the principal foreign policy threat facing America today. He answered, "…based on the numbers of American Muslims [as a percentage] in our population, I cannot see that a cabinet position would be justified. But of course, I would imagine that Muslims could serve at lower levels of my administration."

    Romney, whose Mormon faith has become the subject of heated debate in Republican caucuses, wants America to be blind to his religious beliefs and judge him on merit instead. Yet he seems to accept excluding Muslims because of their religion, claiming they're too much of a minority for a post in high-level policymaking. 

http://www.unscrewingtheinscrutable.com/node/1627
http://www.slate.com/id/2178568/

It ought to be borne in mind that Romney is not a mere rank-and-file Mormon. His family is, and has been for generations, part of the dynastic leadership of the mad cult invented by the convicted fraud Joseph Smith. It is not just legitimate that he be asked about the beliefs that he has not just held, but has caused to be spread and caused to be inculcated into children. It is essential. Here is the most salient reason: Until 1978, the so-called Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was an officially racist organization. Mitt Romney was an adult in 1978. We need to know how he justified this to himself, and we need to hear his self-criticism, if he should chance to have one.

The Book of Mormon, when it is not "chloroform in print" as Mark Twain unkindly phrased it, is full of vicious ingenuity...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought America was a Mormon Nation?</p>
<p>    I asked Mr. Romney whether he would consider including qualified Americans of the Islamic faith in his cabinet as advisers on national security matters, given his position that &#8220;jihadism&#8221; is the principal foreign policy threat facing America today. He answered, &#8220;…based on the numbers of American Muslims [as a percentage] in our population, I cannot see that a cabinet position would be justified. But of course, I would imagine that Muslims could serve at lower levels of my administration.&#8221;</p>
<p>    Romney, whose Mormon faith has become the subject of heated debate in Republican caucuses, wants America to be blind to his religious beliefs and judge him on merit instead. Yet he seems to accept excluding Muslims because of their religion, claiming they&#8217;re too much of a minority for a post in high-level policymaking. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.unscrewingtheinscrutable.com/node/1627" rel="nofollow">http://www.unscrewingtheinscrutable.com/node/1627</a><br />
<a href="http://www.slate.com/id/2178568/" rel="nofollow">http://www.slate.com/id/2178568/</a></p>
<p>It ought to be borne in mind that Romney is not a mere rank-and-file Mormon. His family is, and has been for generations, part of the dynastic leadership of the mad cult invented by the convicted fraud Joseph Smith. It is not just legitimate that he be asked about the beliefs that he has not just held, but has caused to be spread and caused to be inculcated into children. It is essential. Here is the most salient reason: Until 1978, the so-called Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was an officially racist organization. Mitt Romney was an adult in 1978. We need to know how he justified this to himself, and we need to hear his self-criticism, if he should chance to have one.</p>
<p>The Book of Mormon, when it is not &#8220;chloroform in print&#8221; as Mark Twain unkindly phrased it, is full of vicious ingenuity&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
