Comments on: O’Reilly and Ron Paul debate U.S. Middle East policy http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/09/10/oreilly-and-ron-paul-debate-us-middle-east-policy/ Human Animals at the Crossroads of Culture, Science, Religion and Media Thu, 08 Jan 2009 19:12:10 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.5 By: Erich Vieth http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/09/10/oreilly-and-ron-paul-debate-us-middle-east-policy/#comment-14272 Erich Vieth Tue, 11 Sep 2007 15:22:21 +0000 http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=1577#comment-14272 Jason: I agree that the people who run Iran are despots. What I was trying to write is that it is hard enough for dissenters in such places to amass political power. They are likely to be crushed whether or not an outside country (the U.S.) intervenes in the process. If fear, however, that our intervention into Iranian politics has given the despots more excuses to crush the (purely Iranian) dissenters. These dissenters can now be painted as CIA-supported traitors rather than Iranian people who had (legitimate) issues with current Iranian leaders. I fear that we've also polarized the Iranian political divide with our our intervention and militarization of the region. The stakes have been increased dramatically, "justifying" swift rebukes to anyone who dares to question the current Iranian power structure. It's much like 9/11 made neocons out of many Americans who weren't of that mindset before 9/11. I fear that U.S. intervention in Iran and the Middle East has inflamed the current Iranian power structure, justifying the crushing of anything that is American or looks American or reminds them of anything American. It's a bad time to be a political dissenter in Iran, even if your dissent was not supported or inspired by anything American. Jason: I agree that the people who run Iran are despots. What I was trying to write is that it is hard enough for dissenters in such places to amass political power. They are likely to be crushed whether or not an outside country (the U.S.) intervenes in the process. If fear, however, that our intervention into Iranian politics has given the despots more excuses to crush the (purely Iranian) dissenters. These dissenters can now be painted as CIA-supported traitors rather than Iranian people who had (legitimate) issues with current Iranian leaders.

I fear that we’ve also polarized the Iranian political divide with our our intervention and militarization of the region. The stakes have been increased dramatically, “justifying” swift rebukes to anyone who dares to question the current Iranian power structure. It’s much like 9/11 made neocons out of many Americans who weren’t of that mindset before 9/11. I fear that U.S. intervention in Iran and the Middle East has inflamed the current Iranian power structure, justifying the crushing of anything that is American or looks American or reminds them of anything American. It’s a bad time to be a political dissenter in Iran, even if your dissent was not supported or inspired by anything American.

]]> By: Jason Rayl http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/09/10/oreilly-and-ron-paul-debate-us-middle-east-policy/#comment-14271 Jason Rayl Tue, 11 Sep 2007 14:25:55 +0000 http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=1577#comment-14271 Erich, Have to quibble over one point. You say: "Now, our policies regarding Iran are causing the Iranian government to associate all internal Iranian dissent with the United States, which has led to the squelching of dissent." This implies the Iranian leadership is too stupid to know what is actually going on in their own country. Just as back in the 50s and 60s when it became "popular" for our leaders (and subsequently most people) to blame the communists for stirring up dissent over issues which we ALREADY did not wish to deal with, this is a dodge. The Iranians don't want dissent period. Saying there is a link to the U.S. and our policies is nothing but an after-the-fact convenience, a bone thrown to fence sitters. It's nonsense. They know better, as did we throughout the Cold War. (There is a new book out---I forget the title just now---dxetailing Johnson's domestic policies with regards to the Vietnam War and the antiwar movement, wherein it is revealed that he ordered the CIA to "find" a link to communism, even after the Intelligence community came back and told him it was entirely homegrown.) I suppose this irks me a bit because the habit---and it becomes a habit--- of exercising our discontent with our own government's policies, justified or otherwise, leads to a kind of blindness to the fact that some of these folks--like Abadinajad(sp?)---are indeed assholes. Just because they occasionally make a few points about what we're doing that's wrong should not persuade us that they are somehow nice people. Erich,

Have to quibble over one point. You say:

“Now, our policies regarding Iran are causing the Iranian government to associate all internal Iranian dissent with the United States, which has led to the squelching of dissent.”

This implies the Iranian leadership is too stupid to know what is actually going on in their own country. Just as back in the 50s and 60s when it became “popular” for our leaders (and subsequently most people) to blame the communists for stirring up dissent over issues which we ALREADY did not wish to deal with, this is a dodge. The Iranians don’t want dissent period. Saying there is a link to the U.S. and our policies is nothing but an after-the-fact convenience, a bone thrown to fence sitters. It’s nonsense. They know better, as did we throughout the Cold War. (There is a new book out—I forget the title just now—dxetailing Johnson’s domestic policies with regards to the Vietnam War and the antiwar movement, wherein it is revealed that he ordered the CIA to “find” a link to communism, even after the Intelligence community came back and told him it was entirely homegrown.)

I suppose this irks me a bit because the habit—and it becomes a habit— of exercising our discontent with our own government’s policies, justified or otherwise, leads to a kind of blindness to the fact that some of these folks–like Abadinajad(sp?)—are indeed assholes. Just because they occasionally make a few points about what we’re doing that’s wrong should not persuade us that they are somehow nice people.

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