Comments on: Disgust as a basis for morality http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/07/04/disgust-as-a-basis-for-morality/ Human Animals at the Crossroads of Culture, Science, Religion and Media Fri, 21 Nov 2008 23:59:06 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: "steve" http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/07/04/disgust-as-a-basis-for-morality/#comment-15796 "steve" Sun, 20 Jan 2008 03:34:22 +0000 http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=1442#comment-15796 I am an anti-gay bigot. I am an anti-gay bigot.

]]> By: gatomjp http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/07/04/disgust-as-a-basis-for-morality/#comment-13352 gatomjp Sun, 08 Jul 2007 15:45:13 +0000 http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=1442#comment-13352 Niklaus Pfirsig wrote: "I personally have never understood homosexuality..." Would a right handed person say, "I have never understood those LEFT handed people, although I have nothing against them."? Of course not. Yet when it comes to sex, heteros feel that we must distance ourselves with statements like this even while proclaiming our solidarity with "the gays". Sexuality, like so many other human characteristics, is a continuum ranging from very heterosexual to very homosexual and every shade in between. In my mind there is no difference between handedness and sexual preference. Niklaus statement is subtly (and let's hope, unintentionally) demeaning. Niklaus reveals his (probably subconcious) homophobia with that statement and by entertaining the very concept that "conversion" from or to homosexuality is even possible! Did anyone actually try to convert you, Nik? And what would have happened if they did? Niklaus Pfirsig wrote: “I personally have never understood homosexuality…”

Would a right handed person say, “I have never understood those LEFT handed people, although I have nothing against them.”? Of course not. Yet when it comes to sex, heteros feel that we must distance ourselves with statements like this even while proclaiming our solidarity with “the gays”. Sexuality, like so many other human characteristics, is a continuum ranging from very heterosexual to very homosexual and every shade in between. In my mind there is no difference between handedness and sexual preference. Niklaus statement is subtly (and let’s hope, unintentionally) demeaning.

Niklaus reveals his (probably subconcious) homophobia with that statement and by entertaining the very concept that “conversion” from or to homosexuality is even possible! Did anyone actually try to convert you, Nik? And what would have happened if they did?

]]> By: Erich Vieth http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/07/04/disgust-as-a-basis-for-morality/#comment-13350 Erich Vieth Sat, 07 Jul 2007 22:00:38 +0000 http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=1442#comment-13350 For Jonathan Haidt's lecture on the topic of emotions of moral elevation, click here. http://forum.wgbh.org/wgbh/forum.php?lecture_id=3467 For Jonathan Haidt’s lecture on the topic of emotions of moral elevation, click here. http://forum.wgbh.org/wgbh/forum.php?lecture_id=3467

]]> By: Niklaus Pfirsig http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/07/04/disgust-as-a-basis-for-morality/#comment-13332 Niklaus Pfirsig Thu, 05 Jul 2007 14:58:57 +0000 http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=1442#comment-13332 I have had many friends through the years that were gay, and I always had a basic agreement with each of them. I would not try to "convert them" and they would not try to convert me. I personally have never understood homosexuality, but I simply don't make it an issue. I have witnessed the evil ( by evil I mean anti-life ) effects that homophobia places on society. AIDS, was first written up in scientifc journals in the 1970's and as it became diagnosed more often, it seemed to be predominately affecting Hatians, heroin uses and homosexuals. (As George Carlin put it "Anything with an 'H',, I'm no doing!!") A disease with a sense of morality? The religions pundits got involved because the disease seemed to primarily infect homosexual men, and the preachers and self righteous politicians were calling AIDS "God's punishment for their evil ways". As a result, for many years, very little funding went into finding out the cause of the disease and how it spread. Serious research began when the disease started infecting children. The research quickly revealed the cause to be a virus, and that the disease could have an incubation time of several years. All the time the moralists had us looking the other way, Millions of people had been infected through blood transfusions, because there was no test to screen for the virus. A former coworker of mine was promiscouly gay, and had contracted the disease. He had no doubt passed it on to several of his partners long before he knew he had it. Had he known, he was the kind of person that would have practiced some restraint. He died from a rare brain infection. Thanks to the moralists, the world gained an epidemic in exchange for way too many lives. I have had many friends through the years that were gay, and I always had a basic agreement with each of them. I would not try to “convert them” and they would not try to convert me. I personally have never understood homosexuality, but I simply don’t make it an issue.
I have witnessed the evil ( by evil I mean anti-life ) effects that homophobia places on society. AIDS, was first written up in scientifc journals in the 1970’s and as it became diagnosed more often, it seemed to be predominately affecting Hatians, heroin uses and homosexuals. (As George Carlin put it “Anything with an ‘H’,, I’m no doing!!”)

A disease with a sense of morality?
The religions pundits got involved because the disease seemed to primarily infect homosexual men, and the preachers and self righteous politicians were calling AIDS “God’s punishment for their evil ways”. As a result, for many years, very little funding went into finding out the cause of the disease and how it spread. Serious research began when the disease started infecting children. The research quickly revealed the cause to be a virus, and that the disease could have an incubation time of several years. All the time the moralists had us looking the other way, Millions of people had been infected through blood transfusions, because there was no test to screen for the virus.
A former coworker of mine was promiscouly gay, and had contracted the disease. He had no doubt passed it on to several of his partners long before he knew he had it. Had he known, he was the kind of person that would have practiced some restraint. He died from a rare brain infection.
Thanks to the moralists, the world gained an epidemic in exchange for way too many lives.

]]> By: val http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/07/04/disgust-as-a-basis-for-morality/#comment-13328 val Thu, 05 Jul 2007 06:47:19 +0000 http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=1442#comment-13328 Trouble is Haidt got it wrong-disgust is not all about 'hiding from our humanity' (as Nussabuam calls it). Not about protecting ourselves from the knowledge that we are human, animal and mortal. It has 3 domains/purposes: -avoiding the things that cause us disease (organic domain). -shunning social parasites (moral domain) -metaphorical use in abstract thought to label things we don't like (cultural domain). More background to the first 2 at: Evidence that disgust evolved to protect from risk of disease. CURTIS V, AUNGER R and RABIE T Proceedings of the Royal Society Biology Letters Supplement, 2003, 0144. Dirt, Disgust, and Disease: Is Hygiene in Our Genes? CURTIS V and BIRAN A. Perspectives in Biology and Medicine, 44.1, 2001. and a paper about to come out on the 3rd- Curtis, V. (2007). "Dirt, Disgust and Disease: a Natural History of Hygiene." Journal of Epidemiology and Community Health 61(8). I have pdfs if you want Eric. Trouble is Haidt got it wrong-disgust is not all about ‘hiding from our humanity’ (as Nussabuam calls it). Not about protecting ourselves from the knowledge that we are human, animal and mortal. It has 3 domains/purposes:
-avoiding the things that cause us disease (organic domain).
-shunning social parasites (moral domain)
-metaphorical use in abstract thought to label things we don’t like (cultural domain).

More background to the first 2 at:

Evidence that disgust evolved to protect from risk of disease.
CURTIS V, AUNGER R and RABIE T Proceedings of the Royal Society Biology Letters Supplement, 2003, 0144.

Dirt, Disgust, and Disease: Is Hygiene in Our Genes?
CURTIS V and BIRAN A. Perspectives in Biology and Medicine, 44.1, 2001.

and a paper about to come out on the 3rd-

Curtis, V. (2007). “Dirt, Disgust and Disease: a Natural History of Hygiene.” Journal of Epidemiology and Community Health 61(8).

I have pdfs if you want Eric.

]]> By: Vicki Baker http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/07/04/disgust-as-a-basis-for-morality/#comment-13326 Vicki Baker Thu, 05 Jul 2007 02:27:29 +0000 http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=1442#comment-13326 This is a very interesting post and I hope to comment in more detail when I have time. One thing springs to mind - that the entire Hindu caste system is based on this. People who DO disgusting things, such as cleaning toilets and tanning cowhides, ARE disgusting. Also, George Orwell pointed out how the British class system derived much of its force from the disgust the upper classes felt at the filth and uncleanliness of the lower classes, who had few facilities for bathing compared to the upper classes. Orwell's experiences going undercover as a tramp are filled with vivid descriptions of horrid smells and filth but by willingly undergoing these trials he was attempting to desensitize himself. As for reason and emotion, right now I only have this quote from Ben Franklin to share: "So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for every thing one has a mind to do." This is a very interesting post and I hope to comment in more detail when I have time. One thing springs to mind - that the entire Hindu caste system is based on this. People who DO disgusting things, such as cleaning toilets and tanning cowhides, ARE disgusting.
Also, George Orwell pointed out how the British class system derived much of its force from the disgust the upper classes felt at the filth and uncleanliness of the lower classes, who had few facilities for bathing compared to the upper classes. Orwell’s experiences going undercover as a tramp are filled with vivid descriptions of horrid smells and filth but by willingly undergoing these trials he was attempting to desensitize himself.

As for reason and emotion, right now I only have this quote from Ben Franklin to share:

“So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for every thing one has a mind to do.”

]]> By: Mindy http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/07/04/disgust-as-a-basis-for-morality/#comment-13325 Mindy Thu, 05 Jul 2007 02:14:44 +0000 http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=1442#comment-13325 I find liver and onions disgusting. I am disgusted by morbid obesity caused by lack of care of the self. I find it disgusting when my dog drags feminine hygiene products out of the trash. Greedy consumerism - utterly disgusting. Hummers? Ew, beyond disgusting. Not even so much the Hummers themselves as the decision to create them for Joe Q. Public in the first place. That monthly acne breakout I get? God-awful disgusting. The fact that my daughter thinks it's funny to share a lollipop with the dog? Completely repulsive. Immoral? I think not. Maybe the Hummer, yes. Completely immoral, in my book. Greed in general will be the death of our society, I fear. But one cannot legislate away greed, any more than one can legislate away homosexuality. I am not, by the way, equating the two. Greed harms, gayness does not. I read an article recently from the Young Turks about us all being gay - to one degree or another. I believe they are correct. http://newsbloggers.aol.com/2007/06/28/were-all-gay-the-only-question-is-how-much/ I also believe that those who doth protest too much are expressing, under the guise of disgust based on puritanical biblical beliefs, the intense fear of facing that part of themselves. I find liver and onions disgusting. I am disgusted by morbid obesity caused by lack of care of the self. I find it disgusting when my dog drags feminine hygiene products out of the trash. Greedy consumerism - utterly disgusting. Hummers? Ew, beyond disgusting. Not even so much the Hummers themselves as the decision to create them for Joe Q. Public in the first place.

That monthly acne breakout I get? God-awful disgusting. The fact that my daughter thinks it’s funny to share a lollipop with the dog? Completely repulsive.

Immoral? I think not. Maybe the Hummer, yes. Completely immoral, in my book. Greed in general will be the death of our society, I fear. But one cannot legislate away greed, any more than one can legislate away homosexuality.

I am not, by the way, equating the two. Greed harms, gayness does not. I read an article recently from the Young Turks about us all being gay - to one degree or another. I believe they are correct.
http://newsbloggers.aol.com/2007/06/28/were-all-gay-the-only-question-is-how-much/

I also believe that those who doth protest too much are expressing, under the guise of disgust based on puritanical biblical beliefs, the intense fear of facing that part of themselves.

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