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	<title>Comments on: Sicko diagnoses our sick political system</title>
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	<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/06/30/sicko-diagnoses-our-sick-political-system/</link>
	<description>Human Animals at the Crossroads of Culture, Science, Religion and Media</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 19:48:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Erich Vieth</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/06/30/sicko-diagnoses-our-sick-political-system/#comment-17312</link>
		<dc:creator>Erich Vieth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Apr 2008 04:59:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=1432#comment-17312</guid>
		<description>More than half of U.S. doctors now favor switching to a national health care plan and fewer than a third oppose the idea, according to a survey published on Monday.

http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSN31432035</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>More than half of U.S. doctors now favor switching to a national health care plan and fewer than a third oppose the idea, according to a survey published on Monday.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSN31432035" rel="nofollow">http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSN31432035</a></p>
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		<title>By: Erich Vieth</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/06/30/sicko-diagnoses-our-sick-political-system/#comment-13438</link>
		<dc:creator>Erich Vieth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jul 2007 20:53:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=1432#comment-13438</guid>
		<description>Michael Moore held a live chat on Huffpo.   Lots of additional information/links, including a section on What Can I Do?   http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-moore/exclusive-huffpost-live-c_b_55659.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael Moore held a live chat on Huffpo.   Lots of additional information/links, including a section on What Can I Do?   <a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-moore/exclusive-huffpost-live-c_b_55659.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-moore/exclusive-huffpost-live-c_b_55659.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Dan Klarmann</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/06/30/sicko-diagnoses-our-sick-political-system/#comment-13317</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Klarmann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jul 2007 18:11:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=1432#comment-13317</guid>
		<description>Actually, the FICA bite is over 14%, not 7.5%. The other half is hidden from employees as part of "benefits", unless you are self employed. A useful guideline is that it costs a company double your annual salary to have you work there. Employees don't directly see the costs of the FICA half, health, disability, and unemployment insurances, regulatory costs for the space you occupy, and so on.

My largest single expense category (after taxes and direct business costs) is health insurance. And that's just for 2 adults.

Insurance is basically gambling. People who get up in arms about a casino opening, don't think twice about regulations requiring homeowners to place a bet that their house won't burn down or float away each year, or that they won't have a car accident.

When the local city hospital on the edge of the Projects closed last decade because so few patients had any means to pay, the once-flush Washington University/Barnes/Jewish/Children's hospital complex had to take up the slack. 
Their emergency room is now packed with runny noses and coughs of people who get free $500 Emergency care, but can't afford a $50 office visit. If the uninsured could get free regular doctor visits for ordinary ailments, then the medical industry could save a bundle. 
But insurance accountants with their eyes set on the bottom line for the next quarter can't see the 5 year savings of regular basic care.

btw: The projects have since been razed, and the hospital building is being converted into trendy condos.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, the FICA bite is over 14%, not 7.5%. The other half is hidden from employees as part of &#8220;benefits&#8221;, unless you are self employed. A useful guideline is that it costs a company double your annual salary to have you work there. Employees don&#8217;t directly see the costs of the FICA half, health, disability, and unemployment insurances, regulatory costs for the space you occupy, and so on.</p>
<p>My largest single expense category (after taxes and direct business costs) is health insurance. And that&#8217;s just for 2 adults.</p>
<p>Insurance is basically gambling. People who get up in arms about a casino opening, don&#8217;t think twice about regulations requiring homeowners to place a bet that their house won&#8217;t burn down or float away each year, or that they won&#8217;t have a car accident.</p>
<p>When the local city hospital on the edge of the Projects closed last decade because so few patients had any means to pay, the once-flush Washington University/Barnes/Jewish/Children&#8217;s hospital complex had to take up the slack.<br />
Their emergency room is now packed with runny noses and coughs of people who get free $500 Emergency care, but can&#8217;t afford a $50 office visit. If the uninsured could get free regular doctor visits for ordinary ailments, then the medical industry could save a bundle.<br />
But insurance accountants with their eyes set on the bottom line for the next quarter can&#8217;t see the 5 year savings of regular basic care.</p>
<p>btw: The projects have since been razed, and the hospital building is being converted into trendy condos.</p>
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		<title>By: Erich Vieth</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/06/30/sicko-diagnoses-our-sick-political-system/#comment-13315</link>
		<dc:creator>Erich Vieth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jul 2007 16:44:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=1432#comment-13315</guid>
		<description>Here's an inspiring story of what happened in Texas after a showing of Sicko.   Michael Moore is the kid who shouted "The Emperor has no clothes."   This is going to end up being a pointed battle between lobbyist money and the will of the People.   We could really use a Mainstream Media with balls now so that the good guys have a chance.  http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Sicko-Spurs-Audiences-Into-Action-5639.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s an inspiring story of what happened in Texas after a showing of Sicko.   Michael Moore is the kid who shouted &#8220;The Emperor has no clothes.&#8221;   This is going to end up being a pointed battle between lobbyist money and the will of the People.   We could really use a Mainstream Media with balls now so that the good guys have a chance.  <a href="http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Sicko-Spurs-Audiences-Into-Action-5639.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Sicko-Spurs-Audiences-Into-Action-5639.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Vicki Baker</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/06/30/sicko-diagnoses-our-sick-political-system/#comment-13313</link>
		<dc:creator>Vicki Baker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jul 2007 15:32:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=1432#comment-13313</guid>
		<description>Regarding Ebonmuse's friend, who was worried about having to wait in line for medical care in a British-style system - in Britain at least there is also private medical care and some doctors see both NHS and private patients. You can also buy private medical insurance.
Another thought: I think most hospitals do provide care for life-threatening situations without reference to the patient's ability to pay. When the patient can't pay the bills, the cost gets passed on to the rest of us. So we already have socialized medicine, in a very stupid, inefficient form.
I think the die-hard Adam Smith fans are just going to have to realize that the invisible hand of the market in the health care industry is not doing much to hold down costs or provide a reasonable standard of care. The insurance industry is just a giant parasite that siphons money out of the health care industry while providing no services besides another layer of bureacracy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding Ebonmuse&#8217;s friend, who was worried about having to wait in line for medical care in a British-style system - in Britain at least there is also private medical care and some doctors see both NHS and private patients. You can also buy private medical insurance.<br />
Another thought: I think most hospitals do provide care for life-threatening situations without reference to the patient&#8217;s ability to pay. When the patient can&#8217;t pay the bills, the cost gets passed on to the rest of us. So we already have socialized medicine, in a very stupid, inefficient form.<br />
I think the die-hard Adam Smith fans are just going to have to realize that the invisible hand of the market in the health care industry is not doing much to hold down costs or provide a reasonable standard of care. The insurance industry is just a giant parasite that siphons money out of the health care industry while providing no services besides another layer of bureacracy.</p>
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		<title>By: Erich Vieth</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/06/30/sicko-diagnoses-our-sick-political-system/#comment-13312</link>
		<dc:creator>Erich Vieth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jul 2007 15:16:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=1432#comment-13312</guid>
		<description>Devi: Medicaid is also used by some folks you wouldn't think of a welfare-recipients.   When elderly people can't take care of themselves in their own homes, they start looking at nursing homes.   I'm amazed that the sticker shock doesn't just finish them off, frankly.   $30,000-60,000 per year is a number often mentioned. 

This kind of expense can bankrupt many people quickly.   Thus the topic of medicaid.   There are lots of strategies for spending down your assets if you will be checking into a nursing home for the remainder of your life.  But there are also hazards to doing this spend-down legally.  If it's done correctly (this often occurs merely by the person paying the nursing home bill for a year), the middle-class person becomes a poor person and then medicaid kicks in to assist the "poor" person.  This becomes especially tricky if the person going into a nursing home is still married and the spouse wants to remain in the family home.  If you know anyone who needs to go to a nursing home permanently, I'd advise that you have that person see an attorney that specializes in issues relating to the elderly.  See here for some more information: http://www.dhss.mo.gov/NursingHomes/SelectNH.html

In the meantime, any real discussion of national health care should deal with the role that government will play in funding nursing home care.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Devi: Medicaid is also used by some folks you wouldn&#8217;t think of a welfare-recipients.   When elderly people can&#8217;t take care of themselves in their own homes, they start looking at nursing homes.   I&#8217;m amazed that the sticker shock doesn&#8217;t just finish them off, frankly.   $30,000-60,000 per year is a number often mentioned. </p>
<p>This kind of expense can bankrupt many people quickly.   Thus the topic of medicaid.   There are lots of strategies for spending down your assets if you will be checking into a nursing home for the remainder of your life.  But there are also hazards to doing this spend-down legally.  If it&#8217;s done correctly (this often occurs merely by the person paying the nursing home bill for a year), the middle-class person becomes a poor person and then medicaid kicks in to assist the &#8220;poor&#8221; person.  This becomes especially tricky if the person going into a nursing home is still married and the spouse wants to remain in the family home.  If you know anyone who needs to go to a nursing home permanently, I&#8217;d advise that you have that person see an attorney that specializes in issues relating to the elderly.  See here for some more information: <a href="http://www.dhss.mo.gov/NursingHomes/SelectNH.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.dhss.mo.gov/NursingHomes/SelectNH.html</a></p>
<p>In the meantime, any real discussion of national health care should deal with the role that government will play in funding nursing home care.</p>
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		<title>By: Devi</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/06/30/sicko-diagnoses-our-sick-political-system/#comment-13311</link>
		<dc:creator>Devi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jul 2007 13:17:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=1432#comment-13311</guid>
		<description>projektleiterin:  To answer your questions about Medicare and Medicaid:
In the US, nearly all people pay about 7.5% of their earnings to a federal retirement and disability program, and their employer pays a matching amount.  If you are self-employed, you pay both parts.  Participation is NOT voluntary.  There are a very few professions that are not covered, railroad employees being one and if I remember right, federal legislators do not pay into the system.  When a person retires and collects a pension, they also get Medicare.  They still have to pay a monthly premium, but it is very low (around $50), but it doesn't cover much in the way of medicines or any long term care like nursing homes.  People who become disabled before the retirement age, if they have paid enough into the system, can also receive a pension, but the Medicare benefits do not begin until the person has been receiving the disability pension for two years.  In other words, you work for years, become disabled before 65 (or 66, 67, the age requirement is increasing), you have no medical care coverage unless you can buy your own.  Course, since you are disabled, no one will sell you health insurance, at any cost.   I wonder if they hope the disabled person will die first.  I have a friend who has cancer, was determined to be disabled 23 months ago, and has waited without treatment ever since.  She will receive Medicare benefits in a month and can get treatment, but I'm worried that it will be too late.  

Medicaid is welfare.  It is extremely limited, and is largely state controlled.  So where you live can determine whether you qualify or what it covers.  In many, many cases, doctors refuse to accept Medicaid patients because (1) the payments from medicaid are much less than the standard fee and (2) the government sometimes makes these health care providers wait many months for reimbursement.  A number of years ago, the only doctor in town that could be counted on to accept new medicaid patients had to close his practice and declare bankruptcy because the state had not made a single payment to him in over a year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>projektleiterin:  To answer your questions about Medicare and Medicaid:<br />
In the US, nearly all people pay about 7.5% of their earnings to a federal retirement and disability program, and their employer pays a matching amount.  If you are self-employed, you pay both parts.  Participation is NOT voluntary.  There are a very few professions that are not covered, railroad employees being one and if I remember right, federal legislators do not pay into the system.  When a person retires and collects a pension, they also get Medicare.  They still have to pay a monthly premium, but it is very low (around $50), but it doesn&#8217;t cover much in the way of medicines or any long term care like nursing homes.  People who become disabled before the retirement age, if they have paid enough into the system, can also receive a pension, but the Medicare benefits do not begin until the person has been receiving the disability pension for two years.  In other words, you work for years, become disabled before 65 (or 66, 67, the age requirement is increasing), you have no medical care coverage unless you can buy your own.  Course, since you are disabled, no one will sell you health insurance, at any cost.   I wonder if they hope the disabled person will die first.  I have a friend who has cancer, was determined to be disabled 23 months ago, and has waited without treatment ever since.  She will receive Medicare benefits in a month and can get treatment, but I&#8217;m worried that it will be too late.  </p>
<p>Medicaid is welfare.  It is extremely limited, and is largely state controlled.  So where you live can determine whether you qualify or what it covers.  In many, many cases, doctors refuse to accept Medicaid patients because (1) the payments from medicaid are much less than the standard fee and (2) the government sometimes makes these health care providers wait many months for reimbursement.  A number of years ago, the only doctor in town that could be counted on to accept new medicaid patients had to close his practice and declare bankruptcy because the state had not made a single payment to him in over a year.</p>
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		<title>By: Erich Vieth</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/06/30/sicko-diagnoses-our-sick-political-system/#comment-13309</link>
		<dc:creator>Erich Vieth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jul 2007 06:39:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=1432#comment-13309</guid>
		<description>projektleiterin:  My employer pays my health coverage.  For me to cover my spouse and two children costs me $1000/month.  

I am fortunate enough to be able to make those payments.  What's scary is that there is no possible way for many people to insure their families.  

Your comment didn't raise the following issue, but I need to address it.  Many people out there are against "socialized medicine" because they'd rather engage in the blame game.  In the minds of many people who oppose government provision of health care, the people who don't have health care all deserve their plight.

Tens of millions of people have no meaningful access to health care.  That's a fact.  It's important to note that there are many types of people in that class.  Yes, many of them have made bad financial decisions--had they made better decisions, they might have had some coverage.  But there are also tens of millions of ininsured (I know some of them) who are working hard to eke out a living.  If they paid for medical insurance, they wouldn't be able to afford their modest car or their modest apartment.  And consider, what is the price someone should pay, when that person COULD have afforded health insurance, had they worked harder (maybe taken a second job)?  Do we let them remain sick and sometimes die?   Is that ever in the national interest?

I can't help thinking about people with broken arms, babies with high fevers, people with horrible pain that they choose to live with even though they are still in that a tiny window of time where their condition is still treatable.  I think of people feeling the throb of aching rotting teeth, month after month.   A good friend of mine has two adult relatives who are mentally retarded now, because when they were babies, their young poor mothers couldn't afford the fee to take their babies to the health clinic.   Is that ever in the national interest to have people not get basic treatment such as antibiotics?  I think not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>projektleiterin:  My employer pays my health coverage.  For me to cover my spouse and two children costs me $1000/month.  </p>
<p>I am fortunate enough to be able to make those payments.  What&#8217;s scary is that there is no possible way for many people to insure their families.  </p>
<p>Your comment didn&#8217;t raise the following issue, but I need to address it.  Many people out there are against &#8220;socialized medicine&#8221; because they&#8217;d rather engage in the blame game.  In the minds of many people who oppose government provision of health care, the people who don&#8217;t have health care all deserve their plight.</p>
<p>Tens of millions of people have no meaningful access to health care.  That&#8217;s a fact.  It&#8217;s important to note that there are many types of people in that class.  Yes, many of them have made bad financial decisions&#8211;had they made better decisions, they might have had some coverage.  But there are also tens of millions of ininsured (I know some of them) who are working hard to eke out a living.  If they paid for medical insurance, they wouldn&#8217;t be able to afford their modest car or their modest apartment.  And consider, what is the price someone should pay, when that person COULD have afforded health insurance, had they worked harder (maybe taken a second job)?  Do we let them remain sick and sometimes die?   Is that ever in the national interest?</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t help thinking about people with broken arms, babies with high fevers, people with horrible pain that they choose to live with even though they are still in that a tiny window of time where their condition is still treatable.  I think of people feeling the throb of aching rotting teeth, month after month.   A good friend of mine has two adult relatives who are mentally retarded now, because when they were babies, their young poor mothers couldn&#8217;t afford the fee to take their babies to the health clinic.   Is that ever in the national interest to have people not get basic treatment such as antibiotics?  I think not.</p>
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		<title>By: Ebonmuse</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/06/30/sicko-diagnoses-our-sick-political-system/#comment-13306</link>
		<dc:creator>Ebonmuse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jul 2007 03:45:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=1432#comment-13306</guid>
		<description>By the way, I saw this movie in Lincoln Center last week, and Michael Moore was there in the theater afterwards. :) He didn't really give a speech, since he was being mobbed by a cheering crowd, but it was still a very cool experience. Okay, I'm done gloating now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way, I saw this movie in Lincoln Center last week, and Michael Moore was there in the theater afterwards. <img src='http://dangerousintersection.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> He didn&#8217;t really give a speech, since he was being mobbed by a cheering crowd, but it was still a very cool experience. Okay, I&#8217;m done gloating now.</p>
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		<title>By: Ebonmuse</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/06/30/sicko-diagnoses-our-sick-political-system/#comment-13305</link>
		<dc:creator>Ebonmuse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jul 2007 03:40:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=1432#comment-13305</guid>
		<description>"&lt;i&gt;A friend at work was commenting on this movie and it seemed his only concern was that we must not move to a universal system because of the time his relatives in England had to wait on a list for an operation.&lt;/i&gt;"

Isn't this basically like saying that I want other people to be denied health care so that I can jump to the head of the line? If there is a waiting list, it must be because people need medical care, and if there's no list, then that may mean that people who need care aren't getting it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;<i>A friend at work was commenting on this movie and it seemed his only concern was that we must not move to a universal system because of the time his relatives in England had to wait on a list for an operation.</i>&#8221;</p>
<p>Isn&#8217;t this basically like saying that I want other people to be denied health care so that I can jump to the head of the line? If there is a waiting list, it must be because people need medical care, and if there&#8217;s no list, then that may mean that people who need care aren&#8217;t getting it.</p>
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