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	<title>Comments on: Wading through the government, one missing document at a time . . .</title>
	<atom:link href="http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/06/06/wading-through-the-government-one-old-document-at-a-time/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/06/06/wading-through-the-government-one-old-document-at-a-time/</link>
	<description>Human Animals at the Crossroads of Culture, Science, Religion and Media</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 09:24:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: grumpypilgrim</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/06/06/wading-through-the-government-one-old-document-at-a-time/#comment-12968</link>
		<dc:creator>grumpypilgrim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jun 2007 17:59:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=1361#comment-12968</guid>
		<description>Gosh, no wonder government buildings need so many security guards:  with the horrible way so many government workers treat the public, and the enjoyment some of them seem to get from doing it, they must all live in constant fear for their lives.  

So much security to protect that largely empty USCIS office makes me wonder when government will consist of buildings with nothing inside them except security guards.

Mindy's tribulations remind me of a customs official I worked with years ago, who delighted in inspecting and, if possible, detaining every shipment my company imported.  One of his favorite games was to detain shipments of computer CRT monitors on the grounds that they were not certified to comply with federal regulations for television receivers...never mind that the monitors had no television receivers inside them and, thus, did not need to comply with those regulations.  One day he got so bold as to suggest I call his boss in Washington, DC, which, of course, I immediately did.  His boss promptly asked me "what idiot" had given me this run around.  I did not get the last laugh from this experience -- the customs official continued to be a PITA -- but at least I did not have any more problems with CRT monitors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gosh, no wonder government buildings need so many security guards:  with the horrible way so many government workers treat the public, and the enjoyment some of them seem to get from doing it, they must all live in constant fear for their lives.  </p>
<p>So much security to protect that largely empty USCIS office makes me wonder when government will consist of buildings with nothing inside them except security guards.</p>
<p>Mindy&#8217;s tribulations remind me of a customs official I worked with years ago, who delighted in inspecting and, if possible, detaining every shipment my company imported.  One of his favorite games was to detain shipments of computer CRT monitors on the grounds that they were not certified to comply with federal regulations for television receivers&#8230;never mind that the monitors had no television receivers inside them and, thus, did not need to comply with those regulations.  One day he got so bold as to suggest I call his boss in Washington, DC, which, of course, I immediately did.  His boss promptly asked me &#8220;what idiot&#8221; had given me this run around.  I did not get the last laugh from this experience &#8212; the customs official continued to be a PITA &#8212; but at least I did not have any more problems with CRT monitors.</p>
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		<title>By: Mindy Carney</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/06/06/wading-through-the-government-one-old-document-at-a-time/#comment-12947</link>
		<dc:creator>Mindy Carney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jun 2007 21:04:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=1361#comment-12947</guid>
		<description>Sounds typical, Erika - bummer.  I think the whole concept of the overblown bureaucracy is more than I can handle - that is what makes me nuts.  Good luck - -</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sounds typical, Erika - bummer.  I think the whole concept of the overblown bureaucracy is more than I can handle - that is what makes me nuts.  Good luck - -</p>
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		<title>By: Erika Price</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/06/06/wading-through-the-government-one-old-document-at-a-time/#comment-12926</link>
		<dc:creator>Erika Price</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jun 2007 04:50:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=1361#comment-12926</guid>
		<description>Mindy: the whole gauntlet you and your friend had to run especially stings, I think, because if the bureaucracy ran more smoothly and effectively, you wouldn't &lt;i&gt;have&lt;/i&gt; to pay such exorbitant fees in the first place. 

I wish I could say that such a nightmare only happens in your area, or your state. But the exact opposite seems true. I've waited on a death certificate since February. After repeated phone calls and pesterings, and fully knowing that the coroner finished with the document months ago, I still can't get it. I have legal and financial loose-ends to tie up, but I can't until someone in the bureaucracy goes through the trouble of licking an envelope and sending a piece of paper my way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mindy: the whole gauntlet you and your friend had to run especially stings, I think, because if the bureaucracy ran more smoothly and effectively, you wouldn&#8217;t <i>have</i> to pay such exorbitant fees in the first place. </p>
<p>I wish I could say that such a nightmare only happens in your area, or your state. But the exact opposite seems true. I&#8217;ve waited on a death certificate since February. After repeated phone calls and pesterings, and fully knowing that the coroner finished with the document months ago, I still can&#8217;t get it. I have legal and financial loose-ends to tie up, but I can&#8217;t until someone in the bureaucracy goes through the trouble of licking an envelope and sending a piece of paper my way.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/06/06/wading-through-the-government-one-old-document-at-a-time/#comment-12917</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jun 2007 22:08:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=1361#comment-12917</guid>
		<description>Right, it becomes a global issue. That's what most people don't seem to get. Ironic that the way to save America is to first (or simultaneously) save the rest of the world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right, it becomes a global issue. That&#8217;s what most people don&#8217;t seem to get. Ironic that the way to save America is to first (or simultaneously) save the rest of the world.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Klarmann</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/06/06/wading-through-the-government-one-old-document-at-a-time/#comment-12914</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Klarmann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jun 2007 21:15:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=1361#comment-12914</guid>
		<description>As an American born son of immigrants, I feel that more effort needs to be made to validate immigrants that can be absorbed, and to make it clear to would-be immigrants what the true economic picture is over here.

The limits of the formerly boundless resources of the U.S. are becoming ever more clear. The easy oil and wet conditions of the 20th century are fast passing, and the prosperity they brought may well be in jeopardy. In order to avoid the draconian measures that China is facing, we need to determine and somehow manage a supportable population limit. 

That is, how many people can this land support for the next 500 years at better than mere subsistence? Our poor citizens multiply significantly faster than immigrants can infiltrate, so the problem may be more one of education than immigration.

As for keeping terrorists out: The Iron Curtain of Berlin was the tightest border on the planet, and only had to circle half of one city. It did little to cut down on traffic of those determined to get in or out. There is no way to stop a determined man. How much do we want to spend on a broom to sweep back the tide?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As an American born son of immigrants, I feel that more effort needs to be made to validate immigrants that can be absorbed, and to make it clear to would-be immigrants what the true economic picture is over here.</p>
<p>The limits of the formerly boundless resources of the U.S. are becoming ever more clear. The easy oil and wet conditions of the 20th century are fast passing, and the prosperity they brought may well be in jeopardy. In order to avoid the draconian measures that China is facing, we need to determine and somehow manage a supportable population limit. </p>
<p>That is, how many people can this land support for the next 500 years at better than mere subsistence? Our poor citizens multiply significantly faster than immigrants can infiltrate, so the problem may be more one of education than immigration.</p>
<p>As for keeping terrorists out: The Iron Curtain of Berlin was the tightest border on the planet, and only had to circle half of one city. It did little to cut down on traffic of those determined to get in or out. There is no way to stop a determined man. How much do we want to spend on a broom to sweep back the tide?</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/06/06/wading-through-the-government-one-old-document-at-a-time/#comment-12912</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jun 2007 18:10:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=1361#comment-12912</guid>
		<description>Speaking of immigration, I was wondering where folks here stand. Is it really fair to tighten up the borders? Isn't America great because of it's immigrants? What is the difference between an Immigrant and an "Illegal" Immigrant? Is  it just a term/law we have created in hopes of keeping our clubhouse private? I want to share with everybody the great nation of America, but even I realize that completely opening the borders could be detrimental to society. I am pretty sure I don't like the idea of building a huge wall and deporting "illegals". There was also some recent legislation, or failure to legislate...

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/07/washington/07cnd-immig.html?hp</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of immigration, I was wondering where folks here stand. Is it really fair to tighten up the borders? Isn&#8217;t America great because of it&#8217;s immigrants? What is the difference between an Immigrant and an &#8220;Illegal&#8221; Immigrant? Is  it just a term/law we have created in hopes of keeping our clubhouse private? I want to share with everybody the great nation of America, but even I realize that completely opening the borders could be detrimental to society. I am pretty sure I don&#8217;t like the idea of building a huge wall and deporting &#8220;illegals&#8221;. There was also some recent legislation, or failure to legislate&#8230;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/07/washington/07cnd-immig.html?hp" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/07/washington/07cnd-immig.html?hp</a></p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/06/06/wading-through-the-government-one-old-document-at-a-time/#comment-12895</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2007 21:00:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=1361#comment-12895</guid>
		<description>sorry this was supposed to be the second link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDat9zdw7Gs</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sorry this was supposed to be the second link</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDat9zdw7Gs" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDat9zdw7Gs</a></p>
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		<title>By: Dan Klarmann</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/06/06/wading-through-the-government-one-old-document-at-a-time/#comment-12894</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Klarmann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2007 20:59:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=1361#comment-12894</guid>
		<description>Bullies gravitate to jobs where they may exert arbitrary power over others and have such petty (or sometimes not so petty) abuses condoned or tacitly accepted by their superiors. 
The typical example is the Police force or prison guards. Less obvious are the positions behind the window or behind an interview desk in any large bureaucracy. Government offices, the DMV, HR interviewers...

How do I cope? As an often bullied child, I learned to project the idea that I am one of those whom the bully protects; an ally against all those who approach such individuals with anger and fear. It helps to get to such offices early in a shift, before the bad mood sets in.

As to the huge size of bureaucracy, read about &lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinsons_law" title="Wiki" target="_blank" rel="nofollow"&gt;Parkinson's Law&lt;/a&gt; that states (in part) that the size of bureaucracy increases at a steady rate (generally 5-7% per year) regardless of the function or size of an organization.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bullies gravitate to jobs where they may exert arbitrary power over others and have such petty (or sometimes not so petty) abuses condoned or tacitly accepted by their superiors.<br />
The typical example is the Police force or prison guards. Less obvious are the positions behind the window or behind an interview desk in any large bureaucracy. Government offices, the DMV, HR interviewers&#8230;</p>
<p>How do I cope? As an often bullied child, I learned to project the idea that I am one of those whom the bully protects; an ally against all those who approach such individuals with anger and fear. It helps to get to such offices early in a shift, before the bad mood sets in.</p>
<p>As to the huge size of bureaucracy, read about <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinsons_law" title="Wiki" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Parkinson&#8217;s Law</a> that states (in part) that the size of bureaucracy increases at a steady rate (generally 5-7% per year) regardless of the function or size of an organization.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/06/06/wading-through-the-government-one-old-document-at-a-time/#comment-12893</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2007 20:57:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=1361#comment-12893</guid>
		<description>If it is any consolation, other people have similar issues. Recently I came home to the water having been turned off. Not really worth shedding tears over, so I paid the reconnect fee of $90 (45 off and 45 on, but does anybody really just get the water turned "off", of course not, so they charge you again!), and the outstanding bill which was only about $150 for a grand total of $240. It was not even that I was behind on bills, in fact, all the bills are deducted directly (from a bank account) except the water bill. I had simply not seen the bill, it had been stacked with some old mail of my roomate. 

So, being proactive, I called the water company to have all future bills deducted automatically (after first trying to get the $90 refunded to no avail). To make a long story short, they said that I am no longer eligible for the direct billing, since we missed a payment. 

Another time I ended up paying 3000 dollars in fines for having my car insurance lapse, without my knowledge. Ya, that one stung a bit.

Okay now for the funny clips, enjoy...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y05EmK66Gsk

http://img.youtube.com/vi/pDat9zdw7Gs/2.jpg</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If it is any consolation, other people have similar issues. Recently I came home to the water having been turned off. Not really worth shedding tears over, so I paid the reconnect fee of $90 (45 off and 45 on, but does anybody really just get the water turned &#8220;off&#8221;, of course not, so they charge you again!), and the outstanding bill which was only about $150 for a grand total of $240. It was not even that I was behind on bills, in fact, all the bills are deducted directly (from a bank account) except the water bill. I had simply not seen the bill, it had been stacked with some old mail of my roomate. </p>
<p>So, being proactive, I called the water company to have all future bills deducted automatically (after first trying to get the $90 refunded to no avail). To make a long story short, they said that I am no longer eligible for the direct billing, since we missed a payment. </p>
<p>Another time I ended up paying 3000 dollars in fines for having my car insurance lapse, without my knowledge. Ya, that one stung a bit.</p>
<p>Okay now for the funny clips, enjoy&#8230;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y05EmK66Gsk" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y05EmK66Gsk</a></p>
<p><a href="http://img.youtube.com/vi/pDat9zdw7Gs/2.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://img.youtube.com/vi/pDat9zdw7Gs/2.jpg</a></p>
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		<title>By: Mindy Carney</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/06/06/wading-through-the-government-one-old-document-at-a-time/#comment-12890</link>
		<dc:creator>Mindy Carney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2007 15:26:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=1361#comment-12890</guid>
		<description>Well, thanks for wading through my lengthy rambling, Erich!  And yes, the woman behind the window, I'm sure, derives little job satisfaction from working for the government, so she must take her pleasure where she finds it.  Which, in this case, was in exerting her Power.  She was a happy camper.

The amount of money spent on simply maintaining the bureaucracy and accomplishing nothing at all is utterly mind-boggling.   All I will say is that if posts like mine have been monitored to any great length, the thick glass in front of the woman is perfectly understandable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, thanks for wading through my lengthy rambling, Erich!  And yes, the woman behind the window, I&#8217;m sure, derives little job satisfaction from working for the government, so she must take her pleasure where she finds it.  Which, in this case, was in exerting her Power.  She was a happy camper.</p>
<p>The amount of money spent on simply maintaining the bureaucracy and accomplishing nothing at all is utterly mind-boggling.   All I will say is that if posts like mine have been monitored to any great length, the thick glass in front of the woman is perfectly understandable.</p>
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