Comments on: Shopping for Sex: wasteful consumerism and Darwin’s theory of sexual selection http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/02/05/shopping-for-sex-wasteful-consumerism-and-darwin%e2%80%99s-theory-of-sexual-selection/ Human Animals at the Crossroads of Culture, Science, Religion and Media Mon, 01 Dec 2008 18:19:11 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: Pascal Boyer continues his search for natural sources of religious belief | Dangerous Intersection http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/02/05/shopping-for-sex-wasteful-consumerism-and-darwin%e2%80%99s-theory-of-sexual-selection/#comment-30668 Pascal Boyer continues his search for natural sources of religious belief | Dangerous Intersection Mon, 24 Nov 2008 07:03:20 +0000 http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=1027#comment-30668 [...] human coalitional capacity” on which we base our religious beliefs. As argued by Amotz Zahavi, humans “emit and detect costly, hard-to-fake signals of commitment.” While proclaiming [...] [...] human coalitional capacity” on which we base our religious beliefs. As argued by Amotz Zahavi, humans “emit and detect costly, hard-to-fake signals of commitment.” While proclaiming [...]

]]> By: Nate Hagens http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/02/05/shopping-for-sex-wasteful-consumerism-and-darwin%e2%80%99s-theory-of-sexual-selection/#comment-16302 Nate Hagens Sun, 24 Feb 2008 15:23:25 +0000 http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=1027#comment-16302 Thank you. The problem with competing for information, as I mentioned, is what do we DO with the information once it's acquired. To date, information leads to power leads to money leads to resource consumption, etc. To compete just for the information we would all have to take a step towards zen-buddhist land, which wouldn't be a bad thing - just seemingly implausible as I look out my window....;-) Thank you.
The problem with competing for information, as I mentioned, is what do we DO with the information once it’s acquired. To date, information leads to power leads to money leads to resource consumption, etc. To compete just for the information we would all have to take a step towards zen-buddhist land, which wouldn’t be a bad thing - just seemingly implausible as I look out my window….;-)

]]> By: Erich Vieth http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/02/05/shopping-for-sex-wasteful-consumerism-and-darwin%e2%80%99s-theory-of-sexual-selection/#comment-16291 Erich Vieth Sun, 24 Feb 2008 04:48:42 +0000 http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=1027#comment-16291 Nate: Thanks for checking in with us. I read your Oil Drum post. Lots of good information there. I'm especially intrigued by this: <blockquote>The planet is finite: there is only so much land, oil, water, dolphins and gold. No matter how efficiently we use our resources, if there are more users competing for more stuff, we will eventually run out of goods. However, information is limitless. We can explore, research, study, and learn as much as we wish. With the caveat that 8 hours of reading be balanced by hearty physical exercise, information is one thing we can compete for that uses few resources. Look at theoildrum.com as one example. Vernadskii dreamt of a system he called “noosphere” – a biosphere driven by human intellect, spirituality, knowledge, and understanding. </blockquote> I do like your coupling with the limitless need to seek status through squandoring resources with the fact that information is limitless. That would seem to be a much safer battleground (at least for those who are proficient absorbers and processors of information!). Good luck with your project. When you are finished, let us know the link. Nate: Thanks for checking in with us. I read your Oil Drum post. Lots of good information there. I’m especially intrigued by this:

The planet is finite: there is only so much land, oil, water, dolphins and gold. No matter how efficiently we use our resources, if there are more users competing for more stuff, we will eventually run out of goods. However, information is limitless. We can explore, research, study, and learn as much as we wish. With the caveat that 8 hours of reading be balanced by hearty physical exercise, information is one thing we can compete for that uses few resources. Look at theoildrum.com as one example. Vernadskii dreamt of a system he called “noosphere” – a biosphere driven by human intellect, spirituality, knowledge, and understanding.

I do like your coupling with the limitless need to seek status through squandoring resources with the fact that information is limitless. That would seem to be a much safer battleground (at least for those who are proficient absorbers and processors of information!). Good luck with your project. When you are finished, let us know the link.

]]> By: Nate Hagens http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/02/05/shopping-for-sex-wasteful-consumerism-and-darwin%e2%80%99s-theory-of-sexual-selection/#comment-16287 Nate Hagens Sun, 24 Feb 2008 01:01:45 +0000 http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=1027#comment-16287 Erich, I've attempted laying out the foundations for why we consume in this piece: http://www.theoildrum.com/node/3386 I will attempt to turn it into an academic paper, which is how I found your interesting post - by googling.. Nice work Erich,
I’ve attempted laying out the foundations for why we consume in this piece:

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/3386

I will attempt to turn it into an academic paper, which is how I found your interesting post - by googling.. Nice work

]]> By: Erich Vieth http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/02/05/shopping-for-sex-wasteful-consumerism-and-darwin%e2%80%99s-theory-of-sexual-selection/#comment-11373 Erich Vieth Sat, 31 Mar 2007 05:03:53 +0000 http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=1027#comment-11373 To David Koerner: I think that Miller is suggestion that in this realm of runaway consumer spending (and in most other fields of human behavior), the first best step for making changes is to understand why we behave in this way in the first place. Knowing that we are prone to displaying for reasons rooted in ancient desires related to access to partners for procreation just might make us think twice about whether we really "need" that expensive new sports car. That same underlying explanation might also suggest to us alternative ways of displaying that serve that same deep need (e.g., volunteering for a worthy cause can also a powerful display of fitness). I look forward to reading Miller's new book on consumerism. He is a terrific writer and thinker. To David Koerner: I think that Miller is suggestion that in this realm of runaway consumer spending (and in most other fields of human behavior), the first best step for making changes is to understand why we behave in this way in the first place.

Knowing that we are prone to displaying for reasons rooted in ancient desires related to access to partners for procreation just might make us think twice about whether we really “need” that expensive new sports car. That same underlying explanation might also suggest to us alternative ways of displaying that serve that same deep need (e.g., volunteering for a worthy cause can also a powerful display of fitness).

I look forward to reading Miller’s new book on consumerism. He is a terrific writer and thinker.

]]> By: David Koerner http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/02/05/shopping-for-sex-wasteful-consumerism-and-darwin%e2%80%99s-theory-of-sexual-selection/#comment-11367 David Koerner Sat, 31 Mar 2007 01:50:59 +0000 http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=1027#comment-11367 I have a question about this: "Miller argues that this resistance exacerbates conspicuous consumption. When we deny that sexual selection drives conspicuous consumption, this leaves us no systematic understanding of our own behavior. Without any comprehensive understanding of our wasteful impulses, we helplessly play right into the hands of advertisers." ...How? How would you play into the hands of advertisers by turning your back on needless consumerism? Wouldn't the purchase decision be one based on utility and personal satisfaction, rather than an advertised 'suggested' value of enhanced sexual fitness? I have a question about this:
“Miller argues that this resistance exacerbates conspicuous consumption. When we deny that sexual selection drives conspicuous consumption, this leaves us no systematic understanding of our own behavior. Without any comprehensive understanding of our wasteful impulses, we helplessly play right into the hands of advertisers.”

…How? How would you play into the hands of advertisers by turning your back on needless consumerism? Wouldn’t the purchase decision be one based on utility and personal satisfaction, rather than an advertised ’suggested’ value of enhanced sexual fitness?

]]> By: cj http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/02/05/shopping-for-sex-wasteful-consumerism-and-darwin%e2%80%99s-theory-of-sexual-selection/#comment-10353 cj Wed, 28 Feb 2007 19:15:13 +0000 http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=1027#comment-10353 I LOVE the flowbee! I cut my own hair too. Last time I did, it looked so much better than most hair parlor cuts. I've been cutting my own for about 3 years now, the first couple times were pretty choppy but perseverance and practice! I LOVE the flowbee! I cut my own hair too. Last time I did, it looked so much better than most hair parlor cuts. I’ve been cutting my own for about 3 years now, the first couple times were pretty choppy but perseverance and practice!

]]> By: tmol http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/02/05/shopping-for-sex-wasteful-consumerism-and-darwin%e2%80%99s-theory-of-sexual-selection/#comment-9834 tmol Tue, 06 Feb 2007 21:26:20 +0000 http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=1027#comment-9834 Your ask: "Even when you are absoutely in synch and physically walking with an utterly perfect significant other, does it not bring on a “glow” when another sexually attractive person responds to your accomplishments, intellect, creative skills or (as Miller suggests) high-quality possessions?" don't know. never happened. yet. but i do like driving a fast car. Your ask: “Even when you are absoutely in synch and physically walking with an utterly perfect significant other, does it not bring on a “glow” when another sexually attractive person responds to your accomplishments, intellect, creative skills or (as Miller suggests) high-quality possessions?”

don’t know.
never happened.
yet.
but i do like driving a fast car.

]]> By: Erich Vieth http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/02/05/shopping-for-sex-wasteful-consumerism-and-darwin%e2%80%99s-theory-of-sexual-selection/#comment-9831 Erich Vieth Tue, 06 Feb 2007 18:08:21 +0000 http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=1027#comment-9831 TMOL. I've read that there are some people who get all the sex they desire. Miller's point, however, is not about whether one is sexually satiated. It's about the deep craving to advertise for mates shared by humans and all other higher-order animals. We consciously attribute our acquisitiveness to living the "good" life. Miller is suggesting, however, that there is a powerful unconscious biologically-wired function underlying that acquisitiveness. Even when you are absoutely in synch and physically walking with an utterly perfect significant other, does it not bring on a "glow" when another sexually attractive person responds to your accomplishments, intellect, creative skills or (as Miller suggests) high-quality possessions? TMOL. I’ve read that there are some people who get all the sex they desire. Miller’s point, however, is not about whether one is sexually satiated. It’s about the deep craving to advertise for mates shared by humans and all other higher-order animals. We consciously attribute our acquisitiveness to living the “good” life. Miller is suggesting, however, that there is a powerful unconscious biologically-wired function underlying that acquisitiveness.

Even when you are absoutely in synch and physically walking with an utterly perfect significant other, does it not bring on a “glow” when another sexually attractive person responds to your accomplishments, intellect, creative skills or (as Miller suggests) high-quality possessions?

]]> By: tmol http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/02/05/shopping-for-sex-wasteful-consumerism-and-darwin%e2%80%99s-theory-of-sexual-selection/#comment-9829 tmol Tue, 06 Feb 2007 14:06:21 +0000 http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=1027#comment-9829 That is all a bunch of hogwash. If a person is getting all the sex they desire they still may find pleasure in driving a good car. That is all a bunch of hogwash. If a person is getting all the sex they desire they still may find pleasure in driving a good car.

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