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	<title>Comments on: If the entire Bible is inerrant, don&#8217;t skip these parts . . .</title>
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	<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2006/12/19/if-the-entire-bible-is-inerrant-dont-skip-these-parts/</link>
	<description>Human Animals at the Crossroads of Culture, Science, Religion and Media</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 18:10:06 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Dan Klarmann</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2006/12/19/if-the-entire-bible-is-inerrant-dont-skip-these-parts/#comment-24452</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Klarmann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 12:56:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=846#comment-24452</guid>
		<description>Erik: Any time you cite &#34;a study&#34; or "a book", please include a link to that study, or to a direct source of that book (like Amazon). Most published research is available online. When you quote your Bible, include a link to the passage (for example at &lt;a href="http://bible.cc" rel="nofollow"&gt;bible.cc&lt;/a&gt;) so that we can read it in context.

For example, on the law Moses brought down from the mountain apparently endorsing polygamy: &lt;a href="http://bible.cc/exodus/21-10.htm" rel="nofollow"&gt;Ex21:10&lt;/a&gt;, "If he takes another wife to himself, he shall not diminish her food, her clothing, and her marital rights."
In context, it is clearly about how a daughter that a good father sells as a subsequent wife to another shall be treated by the purchaser.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Erik: Any time you cite &quot;a study&quot; or &#8220;a book&#8221;, please include a link to that study, or to a direct source of that book (like Amazon). Most published research is available online. When you quote your Bible, include a link to the passage (for example at <a href="http://bible.cc" rel="nofollow">bible.cc</a>) so that we can read it in context.</p>
<p>For example, on the law Moses brought down from the mountain apparently endorsing polygamy: <a href="http://bible.cc/exodus/21-10.htm" rel="nofollow">Ex21:10</a>, &#8220;If he takes another wife to himself, he shall not diminish her food, her clothing, and her marital rights.&#8221;<br />
In context, it is clearly about how a daughter that a good father sells as a subsequent wife to another shall be treated by the purchaser.</p>
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		<title>By: Erik Brewer</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2006/12/19/if-the-entire-bible-is-inerrant-dont-skip-these-parts/#comment-24439</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik Brewer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 04:36:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=846#comment-24439</guid>
		<description>What would you like links to? I have everything documented. I do not like war but I am glad of the fact that a dictator who murdered millions was stopped before he could do more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What would you like links to? I have everything documented. I do not like war but I am glad of the fact that a dictator who murdered millions was stopped before he could do more.</p>
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		<title>By: Erich Vieth</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2006/12/19/if-the-entire-bible-is-inerrant-dont-skip-these-parts/#comment-24435</link>
		<dc:creator>Erich Vieth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 04:17:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=846#comment-24435</guid>
		<description>I notice there are no links in Erik's reply.  I'm not surprised.  

When none have the responsibility, then nothing gets done.   I have two words for you:  "social security."   Or how about this:  mosquito netting for those at risk for malaria.   Did you know that our government spends some money for such netting.   It's a very simple formula.  Some tax money is taken from each of us, and it saves lives.  But I suppose that's a bad thing for you because you didn't personally CHOOSE to do it yourself.   I obviously disagree.   

Are there bad government programs?  You bet!  How about most of what's going on in Iraq.  You didn't choose to do that either, but I'd bet you love it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I notice there are no links in Erik&#8217;s reply.  I&#8217;m not surprised.  </p>
<p>When none have the responsibility, then nothing gets done.   I have two words for you:  &#8220;social security.&#8221;   Or how about this:  mosquito netting for those at risk for malaria.   Did you know that our government spends some money for such netting.   It&#8217;s a very simple formula.  Some tax money is taken from each of us, and it saves lives.  But I suppose that&#8217;s a bad thing for you because you didn&#8217;t personally CHOOSE to do it yourself.   I obviously disagree.   </p>
<p>Are there bad government programs?  You bet!  How about most of what&#8217;s going on in Iraq.  You didn&#8217;t choose to do that either, but I&#8217;d bet you love it.</p>
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		<title>By: Erik Brewer</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2006/12/19/if-the-entire-bible-is-inerrant-dont-skip-these-parts/#comment-24429</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik Brewer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 02:58:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=846#comment-24429</guid>
		<description>Vicki Baker

I research the subject of teen pregnancy extensively as well as abortions. I can refer you to a couple of articles in the Detroit Free Press and NY Times. Those are not the only sources but they are a few. I am glad that someone started actually paying attention to the argument instead of just writing “well what I think is . . .”. Do you know how many babies have legally been murdered in the USA since Roe v Wade? I know your argument about botched abortions and the dangers. What I do not understand is the fact that we would legalize murder (put the majority in danger) in order to protect a few who are ashamed of their actions and secretly try to get an abortion. Would it make since to legalize murder since it is already taking place anyway? Not a very strong argument. 

Have you studied the suicide rates among teens and homosexuals in Sweden and the Netherlands, trying to make immorality a social norm does not take away the pain and guilt. You can try but it will never work. God will always judge sin (sexual sin) no matter how hard you try to keep it from happening. There is an African proverb, “you should not tear down a wall until you first know why it was erected”. We tried to tear down the wall of morality in the sexual revolution of the 60’s and now our kids and grandkids are suffering the consequences. Instead of admitting the mistakes and trying to change we are making it worse by promoting more immorality. The baby boomers who were hell bent on bringing revolution are the most unhappy people in America today. Statistically proven of course. Why? When you turn your back on God there are consequences. You choose the actions but He gives the results/consequences. Again, I am not against teach age appropriate teens about sexuality but it must be done correctly, in a way that does not glorify immorality (but makes it shameful as it is) and degrade abstinence/virginity. Most sex ed classes glorify immorality as something normal and worth trying and make virginity out to be old fashioned or impossible. Sex is a wonderful gift from God given to a husband and wife within the confines of marriage. Anything outside of that is a shameful act.  

Erich Vieth

How can you implement the redistribution of wealth without forcing some to give to others? Have you ever talked to anyone from the former USSR who was stripped of all that he had and deported to Siberia along with some of his family so that wealth could be redistributed? I have and it was not a pleasant conversation. Socialism will take us down that path again. If you do not learn from history then you are bound to repeat it. 
Giving to the poor is a command that Christians must fulfill, because it opens the door to share the Gospel and bring the real help that they need. Throwing money at people and not addressing the root of the problem never helps.  When the burden is taken from the Church and placed on the government you get the social mess that you have today. When none have responsibility then nothing gets done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vicki Baker</p>
<p>I research the subject of teen pregnancy extensively as well as abortions. I can refer you to a couple of articles in the Detroit Free Press and NY Times. Those are not the only sources but they are a few. I am glad that someone started actually paying attention to the argument instead of just writing “well what I think is . . .”. Do you know how many babies have legally been murdered in the USA since Roe v Wade? I know your argument about botched abortions and the dangers. What I do not understand is the fact that we would legalize murder (put the majority in danger) in order to protect a few who are ashamed of their actions and secretly try to get an abortion. Would it make since to legalize murder since it is already taking place anyway? Not a very strong argument. </p>
<p>Have you studied the suicide rates among teens and homosexuals in Sweden and the Netherlands, trying to make immorality a social norm does not take away the pain and guilt. You can try but it will never work. God will always judge sin (sexual sin) no matter how hard you try to keep it from happening. There is an African proverb, “you should not tear down a wall until you first know why it was erected”. We tried to tear down the wall of morality in the sexual revolution of the 60’s and now our kids and grandkids are suffering the consequences. Instead of admitting the mistakes and trying to change we are making it worse by promoting more immorality. The baby boomers who were hell bent on bringing revolution are the most unhappy people in America today. Statistically proven of course. Why? When you turn your back on God there are consequences. You choose the actions but He gives the results/consequences. Again, I am not against teach age appropriate teens about sexuality but it must be done correctly, in a way that does not glorify immorality (but makes it shameful as it is) and degrade abstinence/virginity. Most sex ed classes glorify immorality as something normal and worth trying and make virginity out to be old fashioned or impossible. Sex is a wonderful gift from God given to a husband and wife within the confines of marriage. Anything outside of that is a shameful act.  </p>
<p>Erich Vieth</p>
<p>How can you implement the redistribution of wealth without forcing some to give to others? Have you ever talked to anyone from the former USSR who was stripped of all that he had and deported to Siberia along with some of his family so that wealth could be redistributed? I have and it was not a pleasant conversation. Socialism will take us down that path again. If you do not learn from history then you are bound to repeat it.<br />
Giving to the poor is a command that Christians must fulfill, because it opens the door to share the Gospel and bring the real help that they need. Throwing money at people and not addressing the root of the problem never helps.  When the burden is taken from the Church and placed on the government you get the social mess that you have today. When none have responsibility then nothing gets done.</p>
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		<title>By: Erich Vieth</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2006/12/19/if-the-entire-bible-is-inerrant-dont-skip-these-parts/#comment-24424</link>
		<dc:creator>Erich Vieth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 22:28:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=846#comment-24424</guid>
		<description>Erik: In response to your comment (4 comments above) you write that people in the New Testament weren't "forced" to give to the poor, apparently to contrast that with what you believe is the case now, where Americans are "forced" to give to the poor.    

This comment interests me because it assumes that the government is not the will of the people.   You are thus not a believer in the proper operation of the United States government.  If you took steps to fix this disconnect (and thereby made the government responsive to the will of the people), THEN the government's rules compelling you to give to the poor would be your the will of the people.  

I know this doesn't really address the massive disconnect you and I have regarding many other issues, but it is a point I found interesting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Erik: In response to your comment (4 comments above) you write that people in the New Testament weren&#8217;t &#8220;forced&#8221; to give to the poor, apparently to contrast that with what you believe is the case now, where Americans are &#8220;forced&#8221; to give to the poor.    </p>
<p>This comment interests me because it assumes that the government is not the will of the people.   You are thus not a believer in the proper operation of the United States government.  If you took steps to fix this disconnect (and thereby made the government responsive to the will of the people), THEN the government&#8217;s rules compelling you to give to the poor would be your the will of the people.  </p>
<p>I know this doesn&#8217;t really address the massive disconnect you and I have regarding many other issues, but it is a point I found interesting.</p>
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		<title>By: Vicki Baker</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2006/12/19/if-the-entire-bible-is-inerrant-dont-skip-these-parts/#comment-24420</link>
		<dc:creator>Vicki Baker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 20:57:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=846#comment-24420</guid>
		<description>Erik: 

Where are you getting these stats on teen pregnancy? According to a very thorough study of teenage sexuality, teen pregnancy rates in the U.S. have declined from a high in the 1950's. Teen abortion rates have declined from a high in the 1970's. Researchers attribute the decline both to teens delaying sex, and increased contraceptive use. Births to out of wedlock teens have grown, however. 

Also, countries like Sweden and the Netherlands which have less conflicted attitudes about teen sexuality and sex education have much lower rates of teen pregnancy and STD's than the U.S. Researchers found that parental attitudes in these countries were effective in communicating to teens that childbearing belongs to the adult years, and that sex should take place within the context of committed, monogamous relationships.  

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/tgr/05/1/gr050107.html

Can you point to even one study that show that "abstinence plus" sex education, which gives kids tools for resisting pressure to become sexually active, but also provides detailed information about contraception and protection against STD's,  is less effective than abstinence-only sex ed?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Erik: </p>
<p>Where are you getting these stats on teen pregnancy? According to a very thorough study of teenage sexuality, teen pregnancy rates in the U.S. have declined from a high in the 1950&#8217;s. Teen abortion rates have declined from a high in the 1970&#8217;s. Researchers attribute the decline both to teens delaying sex, and increased contraceptive use. Births to out of wedlock teens have grown, however. </p>
<p>Also, countries like Sweden and the Netherlands which have less conflicted attitudes about teen sexuality and sex education have much lower rates of teen pregnancy and STD&#8217;s than the U.S. Researchers found that parental attitudes in these countries were effective in communicating to teens that childbearing belongs to the adult years, and that sex should take place within the context of committed, monogamous relationships.  </p>
<p><a href="http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/tgr/05/1/gr050107.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/tgr/05/1/gr050107.html</a></p>
<p>Can you point to even one study that show that &#8220;abstinence plus&#8221; sex education, which gives kids tools for resisting pressure to become sexually active, but also provides detailed information about contraception and protection against STD&#8217;s,  is less effective than abstinence-only sex ed?</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Klarmann</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2006/12/19/if-the-entire-bible-is-inerrant-dont-skip-these-parts/#comment-24419</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Klarmann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 20:28:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=846#comment-24419</guid>
		<description>Teen pregnancy rates didn't particularly rise in the 60's and 70's. What rose was the incidence of it being reported. There was a parallel decline in the rate of mothers of teenagers having late babies just after their daughter was out of circulation for several months with some ailment. An occurrence about as prevalent as the 8 lb 5 month preemie first-borns of earlier eras. Every large town once had an orphanage, a storage house for abandoned babies. Try to find one, now.

A similar statistical disconnect is often hyped about the abortion rate. That the rate suddenly increased when it was made legal. Nope. The rate of it being reported increased. The illegal, dangerous and unreported practice died out as safer, accountable, legal channels became available.

But these opinions are only statistics that take a small amount of work to confirm. I generally consider them facts, truths.

As for the decline in teen pregnancies in the 90's, they were across the board. Not even significantly in the areas when abstinence only programs were imposed. The pregnancy decrease was roughly proportional to the increase in girls deciding to go to college. I'd bet that most of those were from schools with full sex ed programs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Teen pregnancy rates didn&#8217;t particularly rise in the 60&#8217;s and 70&#8217;s. What rose was the incidence of it being reported. There was a parallel decline in the rate of mothers of teenagers having late babies just after their daughter was out of circulation for several months with some ailment. An occurrence about as prevalent as the 8 lb 5 month preemie first-borns of earlier eras. Every large town once had an orphanage, a storage house for abandoned babies. Try to find one, now.</p>
<p>A similar statistical disconnect is often hyped about the abortion rate. That the rate suddenly increased when it was made legal. Nope. The rate of it being reported increased. The illegal, dangerous and unreported practice died out as safer, accountable, legal channels became available.</p>
<p>But these opinions are only statistics that take a small amount of work to confirm. I generally consider them facts, truths.</p>
<p>As for the decline in teen pregnancies in the 90&#8217;s, they were across the board. Not even significantly in the areas when abstinence only programs were imposed. The pregnancy decrease was roughly proportional to the increase in girls deciding to go to college. I&#8217;d bet that most of those were from schools with full sex ed programs.</p>
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		<title>By: Erik Brewer</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2006/12/19/if-the-entire-bible-is-inerrant-dont-skip-these-parts/#comment-24414</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik Brewer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:28:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=846#comment-24414</guid>
		<description>I like the way that you pick and choose what to argue against (cherry picking) yet do not respond to the comments/questions that I pose. You guys are all the same (no offense intended) I have gone done this path many times with so called "free thinkers" yet I find such a uniformity in your thought pattern. Interesting to note, right? Maybe it is because you have all been taught (brainwashed) with the same doctrine. I know because I was you at one time!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like the way that you pick and choose what to argue against (cherry picking) yet do not respond to the comments/questions that I pose. You guys are all the same (no offense intended) I have gone done this path many times with so called &#8220;free thinkers&#8221; yet I find such a uniformity in your thought pattern. Interesting to note, right? Maybe it is because you have all been taught (brainwashed) with the same doctrine. I know because I was you at one time!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Erik Brewer</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2006/12/19/if-the-entire-bible-is-inerrant-dont-skip-these-parts/#comment-24413</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik Brewer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:26:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=846#comment-24413</guid>
		<description>You wrote “seeking equitable distribution of resources and avoiding actions that are harmful to others”
	
I have a few comments on this. First of all I lived in the former Soviet Union for a while and my wife was raised under the USSR so I understand what the equitable distribution of resources means. Take from all, make all poor, while a very select few live off the backs of the masses, in other words communism. My friend you do not want that because it forces people to cheat and steal, it destroys society, morals, etc. Is that what you want? If that is the case then you are not “avoiding actions that are harmful to others”. 

In the New Testament the people were not forced to give up their possession to give to others. They did it willfully. Liberals want to redistribute wealth (by force, laws, taxes), they want people to live in a Biblical manner without God. That is impossible. Man’s heart must be first changed (you read the NT more carefully) then he will have compassion on his neighbor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You wrote “seeking equitable distribution of resources and avoiding actions that are harmful to others”</p>
<p>I have a few comments on this. First of all I lived in the former Soviet Union for a while and my wife was raised under the USSR so I understand what the equitable distribution of resources means. Take from all, make all poor, while a very select few live off the backs of the masses, in other words communism. My friend you do not want that because it forces people to cheat and steal, it destroys society, morals, etc. Is that what you want? If that is the case then you are not “avoiding actions that are harmful to others”. </p>
<p>In the New Testament the people were not forced to give up their possession to give to others. They did it willfully. Liberals want to redistribute wealth (by force, laws, taxes), they want people to live in a Biblical manner without God. That is impossible. Man’s heart must be first changed (you read the NT more carefully) then he will have compassion on his neighbor.</p>
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		<title>By: Erich Vieth</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2006/12/19/if-the-entire-bible-is-inerrant-dont-skip-these-parts/#comment-24411</link>
		<dc:creator>Erich Vieth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=846#comment-24411</guid>
		<description>Erik:  The claim that relativism is the liberal lie is the conservative distortion.  The philosophy of liberals is deeply grounded in ideas of caring for one another, seeking equitable distribution of resources and avoiding actions that are harmful to others.  

If you go read the New Testament carefully, you'll find these ideas repeatedly expressed.  

I'll let other readers consider for themselves whether I've been fighting your "facts" with mere "opinions."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Erik:  The claim that relativism is the liberal lie is the conservative distortion.  The philosophy of liberals is deeply grounded in ideas of caring for one another, seeking equitable distribution of resources and avoiding actions that are harmful to others.  </p>
<p>If you go read the New Testament carefully, you&#8217;ll find these ideas repeatedly expressed.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;ll let other readers consider for themselves whether I&#8217;ve been fighting your &#8220;facts&#8221; with mere &#8220;opinions.&#8221;</p>
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