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	<title>Comments on: Let&#8217;s give thanks for selective memories on Thanksgiving</title>
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	<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2006/11/21/lets-give-thanks-for-the-myth-of-thanksgiving/</link>
	<description>Human Animals at the Crossroads of Culture, Science, Religion and Media</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 19:22:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Niklaus Pfirsig</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2006/11/21/lets-give-thanks-for-the-myth-of-thanksgiving/comment-page-1/#comment-30852</link>
		<dc:creator>Niklaus Pfirsig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Nov 2008 15:53:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=751#comment-30852</guid>
		<description>The official history is written by the winners, and they don;t like to be remembered for the evil they do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The official history is written by the winners, and they don;t like to be remembered for the evil they do.</p>
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		<title>By: What if Thanksgiving was not about happy Pilgrims sharing turkey with industrious Natives, but about giving thanks for a successful massacre? (Reconsidering Thanksgiving, Part 2) &#171; Professor, What If&#8230;?</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2006/11/21/lets-give-thanks-for-the-myth-of-thanksgiving/comment-page-1/#comment-30798</link>
		<dc:creator>What if Thanksgiving was not about happy Pilgrims sharing turkey with industrious Natives, but about giving thanks for a successful massacre? (Reconsidering Thanksgiving, Part 2) &#171; Professor, What If&#8230;?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 18:39:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=751#comment-30798</guid>
		<description>[...] &#8220;Let&#8217;s give thanks for selective memories on Thanksgiving,&#8221; by Eric Vieth, published at Dangerous Intersection, 2006 [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &#8220;Let&#8217;s give thanks for selective memories on Thanksgiving,&#8221; by Eric Vieth, published at Dangerous Intersection, 2006 [...]</p>
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		<title>By: I will plead the 5th</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2006/11/21/lets-give-thanks-for-the-myth-of-thanksgiving/comment-page-1/#comment-8300</link>
		<dc:creator>I will plead the 5th</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Nov 2006 05:03:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=751#comment-8300</guid>
		<description>Geez, I didn't need to be reminded of all that. I think in this case I will plead naive. I will play the role of the dumb american this time, so i don't spoil thanksgiving for the family. I feel like being a Christian again for a couple days. Sorry spaghetti monster, im eating turkey tomorrow.
This is America, and for all the whining we do, maybe its time to give thanks for what we have by acting like it. This comment has no purpose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Geez, I didn&#8217;t need to be reminded of all that. I think in this case I will plead naive. I will play the role of the dumb american this time, so i don&#8217;t spoil thanksgiving for the family. I feel like being a Christian again for a couple days. Sorry spaghetti monster, im eating turkey tomorrow.<br />
This is America, and for all the whining we do, maybe its time to give thanks for what we have by acting like it. This comment has no purpose.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Rayl</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2006/11/21/lets-give-thanks-for-the-myth-of-thanksgiving/comment-page-1/#comment-8209</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Rayl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Nov 2006 14:47:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=751#comment-8209</guid>
		<description>All conquerors try to assert that the conquered either had it coming or are subsequently better off for having been conquered.  Sometimes it has actually been true, but even then it doesn't justify the conquering.  But the ocnquering goes on.  Look at Darfour--there's nothing going on there except a world class land grab, and if the U.N. thinks differently they have fewer brains at their disposal than I thought.

The thing that seems to make what Europeans did to native Americans so odious is that, for the most part, these were conquerors whose world was part of the Enlightenment.  There was sound argument available to counter manifest destiny.  It didn't matter.

But Lincoln's establishment of Thanksgiving was hardly hypocritical.  He wanted Neuvo-Americans to take a day to celebrate what they actually had, regardless how they got it, and reflect on the idea that it might not necessarily have turned out that way.

It would have been interesting to see what Lincoln would have done in a second term with Indian policy.  Not much, I imagine.  The cultures simply didn't have room to accomodate each other over the issue of property.

I'm currently reading  THE DIVIDED GROUND by Alan Taylor, which chronicles what happend to the Six Nations of the Iroquois in the aftermath of the Revolutionary War.  Very instructive.

But---I was born in 1954.  I did not displace anyone to live where I do.  I understand but reject any argument that I am in any way responsible for something that happened centuries ago.  Which is why I neither celebrate nor mourn the so-called Pilgrim's Landing.  I won't take credit for what they did, nor accept the blame.  I think both practices are self-deluding and ultimately pointless.

But I like the day off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All conquerors try to assert that the conquered either had it coming or are subsequently better off for having been conquered.  Sometimes it has actually been true, but even then it doesn&#8217;t justify the conquering.  But the ocnquering goes on.  Look at Darfour&#8211;there&#8217;s nothing going on there except a world class land grab, and if the U.N. thinks differently they have fewer brains at their disposal than I thought.</p>
<p>The thing that seems to make what Europeans did to native Americans so odious is that, for the most part, these were conquerors whose world was part of the Enlightenment.  There was sound argument available to counter manifest destiny.  It didn&#8217;t matter.</p>
<p>But Lincoln&#8217;s establishment of Thanksgiving was hardly hypocritical.  He wanted Neuvo-Americans to take a day to celebrate what they actually had, regardless how they got it, and reflect on the idea that it might not necessarily have turned out that way.</p>
<p>It would have been interesting to see what Lincoln would have done in a second term with Indian policy.  Not much, I imagine.  The cultures simply didn&#8217;t have room to accomodate each other over the issue of property.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m currently reading  THE DIVIDED GROUND by Alan Taylor, which chronicles what happend to the Six Nations of the Iroquois in the aftermath of the Revolutionary War.  Very instructive.</p>
<p>But&#8212;I was born in 1954.  I did not displace anyone to live where I do.  I understand but reject any argument that I am in any way responsible for something that happened centuries ago.  Which is why I neither celebrate nor mourn the so-called Pilgrim&#8217;s Landing.  I won&#8217;t take credit for what they did, nor accept the blame.  I think both practices are self-deluding and ultimately pointless.</p>
<p>But I like the day off.</p>
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		<title>By: grumpypilgrim</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2006/11/21/lets-give-thanks-for-the-myth-of-thanksgiving/comment-page-1/#comment-8160</link>
		<dc:creator>grumpypilgrim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Nov 2006 02:37:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=751#comment-8160</guid>
		<description>Ben Franklin also wrote about the early relationship between English settlers and Native Americans, in his wonderful essay, "Remarks Concerning the Savages of North America," a copy of which can be found here: http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=129/.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ben Franklin also wrote about the early relationship between English settlers and Native Americans, in his wonderful essay, &#8220;Remarks Concerning the Savages of North America,&#8221; a copy of which can be found here: <a href="http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=129/" rel="nofollow">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=129/</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Deb</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2006/11/21/lets-give-thanks-for-the-myth-of-thanksgiving/comment-page-1/#comment-8141</link>
		<dc:creator>Deb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Nov 2006 21:56:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=751#comment-8141</guid>
		<description>'Revisionist' history, indeed.  One would think that history was history because a fact is just a fact, but it is revised continually.  There is a very interesting series on how historical "facts" are revised just starting on NPR.  This morning's story was about how history textbooks change with time. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6517854</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;Revisionist&#8217; history, indeed.  One would think that history was history because a fact is just a fact, but it is revised continually.  There is a very interesting series on how historical &#8220;facts&#8221; are revised just starting on NPR.  This morning&#8217;s story was about how history textbooks change with time. <a href="http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6517854" rel="nofollow">http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6517854</a></p>
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		<title>By: hogiemo</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2006/11/21/lets-give-thanks-for-the-myth-of-thanksgiving/comment-page-1/#comment-8131</link>
		<dc:creator>hogiemo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Nov 2006 20:23:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=751#comment-8131</guid>
		<description>Erich, you are an immoral nihlist and will burn. Happy Thanksgiving!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Erich, you are an immoral nihlist and will burn. Happy Thanksgiving!</p>
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		<title>By: Gina</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2006/11/21/lets-give-thanks-for-the-myth-of-thanksgiving/comment-page-1/#comment-8120</link>
		<dc:creator>Gina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Nov 2006 18:13:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=751#comment-8120</guid>
		<description>While I agree with your post to a great degree, I do question what is wrong with one day in November spending time with friends or family and feeling gratitude.  I would dare say that all of us need to be a bit more grateful for the blessings (for lack of a better term) in our lives.  Especially here in the U.S.  Would you not agree?

I am vegetarian and passionate about animal welfare, so have a few reasons other than those you mention to be upset with the American Thanksgiving tradition - namely a ridiculous amount of turkeys being slaughtered for this day of overconsumption - but still I think it good there is one day a year when people are to be grateful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I agree with your post to a great degree, I do question what is wrong with one day in November spending time with friends or family and feeling gratitude.  I would dare say that all of us need to be a bit more grateful for the blessings (for lack of a better term) in our lives.  Especially here in the U.S.  Would you not agree?</p>
<p>I am vegetarian and passionate about animal welfare, so have a few reasons other than those you mention to be upset with the American Thanksgiving tradition - namely a ridiculous amount of turkeys being slaughtered for this day of overconsumption - but still I think it good there is one day a year when people are to be grateful.</p>
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