<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Those &#8220;good old days&#8221; never existed.</title>
	<atom:link href="http://dangerousintersection.org/2006/08/22/those-good-old-days-never-existed-2/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2006/08/22/those-good-old-days-never-existed-2/</link>
	<description>Human Animals at the Crossroads of Culture, Science, Religion and Media</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 08:11:21 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7.1</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: grumpypilgrim</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2006/08/22/those-good-old-days-never-existed-2/comment-page-1/#comment-2371</link>
		<dc:creator>grumpypilgrim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Aug 2006 17:41:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=432#comment-2371</guid>
		<description>When I read the first sentence of hogiemo's comment, I thought it was just hyperbole to suggest that today's right-wing activists want the "good old days" of the 1850s, but as I read further I saw that hogiemo's analysis is both insightful and well-reasoned.  Bravo!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I read the first sentence of hogiemo&#8217;s comment, I thought it was just hyperbole to suggest that today&#8217;s right-wing activists want the &#8220;good old days&#8221; of the 1850s, but as I read further I saw that hogiemo&#8217;s analysis is both insightful and well-reasoned.  Bravo!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jason Rayl</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2006/08/22/those-good-old-days-never-existed-2/comment-page-1/#comment-2369</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Rayl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Aug 2006 13:53:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=432#comment-2369</guid>
		<description>In the 1850s the country was in the grip of a depresion and the Irish were coming in by the thousands.  No red scare, but the same old job-threat immigration scare.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the 1850s the country was in the grip of a depresion and the Irish were coming in by the thousands.  No red scare, but the same old job-threat immigration scare.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Erika Price</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2006/08/22/those-good-old-days-never-existed-2/comment-page-1/#comment-2363</link>
		<dc:creator>Erika Price</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Aug 2006 04:56:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=432#comment-2363</guid>
		<description>I think the conservatives would like an amalgamation of the two- the rampant, unchecked industry of the 1850's, and the oppressive social hierarchy and creature comforts of the 1950's. They certianly still threw around the "socialist"/ "Anti-American" insults in the 1950's, too, except that the red scare had perhaps made it even worse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the conservatives would like an amalgamation of the two- the rampant, unchecked industry of the 1850&#8217;s, and the oppressive social hierarchy and creature comforts of the 1950&#8217;s. They certianly still threw around the &#8220;socialist&#8221;/ &#8220;Anti-American&#8221; insults in the 1950&#8217;s, too, except that the red scare had perhaps made it even worse.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jason Rayl</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2006/08/22/those-good-old-days-never-existed-2/comment-page-1/#comment-2360</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Rayl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Aug 2006 01:01:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=432#comment-2360</guid>
		<description>The only part of Hogiemo's observation that would be a problem is that in the 1850s there was no air conditioning and no stretch limos.  The internal combustion engine is integral to the far right's rehabilitation program.  

Other than that, I concur.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The only part of Hogiemo&#8217;s observation that would be a problem is that in the 1850s there was no air conditioning and no stretch limos.  The internal combustion engine is integral to the far right&#8217;s rehabilitation program.  </p>
<p>Other than that, I concur.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: hogiemo</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2006/08/22/those-good-old-days-never-existed-2/comment-page-1/#comment-2331</link>
		<dc:creator>hogiemo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Aug 2006 19:00:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=432#comment-2331</guid>
		<description>Folks, it's not the 1950's the Republican right wants back but, the 1850's. 

Big Oil, corporations and trusts ran the politics of the country and dictated what wages, hours and conditions we worked and hand-picked our leaders. 

We fought wars against petty opponents for false reasons and established overseas colonies to exploit resources there. 

The press was a tool of the rich and fomented the wars by ceaselessly and uncritically repeating and "reporting"  the lies of the rich and the government, or just making things up.

There were no income, estate and capital gains taxes on the rich and their assets which they were free to devolve upon their scions so as to maintain hereditary powers and privileges, and force the rest of us to pay for their protection. 

If you didn't agree with all of the above, you were "anti-American", a "socialist" and "unpatriotic", a "seditionist" and were unprotected from unreasonable searches and seizures of your person, effects or homes. The Courts did not require you to have access to an attorney or even to be tried in an open court, assisted by competent counsel of your choosing, or any attorney at all.

Slaves and their families were forced into small communities in marginal areas of the economy and completely unprotected from the harsh elements by their masters (especially in the South).

Oh, yes! The Right wants the '50s back but, it's the 1850s! And it's 1850 all over again, already.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Folks, it&#8217;s not the 1950&#8217;s the Republican right wants back but, the 1850&#8217;s. </p>
<p>Big Oil, corporations and trusts ran the politics of the country and dictated what wages, hours and conditions we worked and hand-picked our leaders. </p>
<p>We fought wars against petty opponents for false reasons and established overseas colonies to exploit resources there. </p>
<p>The press was a tool of the rich and fomented the wars by ceaselessly and uncritically repeating and &#8220;reporting&#8221;  the lies of the rich and the government, or just making things up.</p>
<p>There were no income, estate and capital gains taxes on the rich and their assets which they were free to devolve upon their scions so as to maintain hereditary powers and privileges, and force the rest of us to pay for their protection. </p>
<p>If you didn&#8217;t agree with all of the above, you were &#8220;anti-American&#8221;, a &#8220;socialist&#8221; and &#8220;unpatriotic&#8221;, a &#8220;seditionist&#8221; and were unprotected from unreasonable searches and seizures of your person, effects or homes. The Courts did not require you to have access to an attorney or even to be tried in an open court, assisted by competent counsel of your choosing, or any attorney at all.</p>
<p>Slaves and their families were forced into small communities in marginal areas of the economy and completely unprotected from the harsh elements by their masters (especially in the South).</p>
<p>Oh, yes! The Right wants the &#8217;50s back but, it&#8217;s the 1850s! And it&#8217;s 1850 all over again, already.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: grumpypilgrim</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2006/08/22/those-good-old-days-never-existed-2/comment-page-1/#comment-2321</link>
		<dc:creator>grumpypilgrim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Aug 2006 17:24:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=432#comment-2321</guid>
		<description>Jason's comment about television's fictional coolness reminds me of a question that's been kicking around my thoughts for a while:  did significant numbers of women have eating disorders (e.g., anorexia) before television (or Playboy magazine) created such narrow (no pun intended) standards of female appearance?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jason&#8217;s comment about television&#8217;s fictional coolness reminds me of a question that&#8217;s been kicking around my thoughts for a while:  did significant numbers of women have eating disorders (e.g., anorexia) before television (or Playboy magazine) created such narrow (no pun intended) standards of female appearance?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jason Rayl</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2006/08/22/those-good-old-days-never-existed-2/comment-page-1/#comment-2311</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Rayl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Aug 2006 14:15:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=432#comment-2311</guid>
		<description>Television.  They put Beaver Cleaver's mom on the air and held it up as a standard to which we were all supposed to live up.  Likewise Ozzie and Harriet.  When it clearly didn't work, they held up the mirror to show us the "failures" in living color and made us feel like a nation of self-indulgent neurotics.  Now we have "reality tv" which suggests that everyone is out for their own sake and will stab our best friend in the back for the prize at the end of the show.

Feminists railed against Playboy in the 70s and 80s for holding up a female standard no one could live up to.  But frankly, if one read the articles (instead of "just" looking at the pictures) Playboy strongly urged people to drop the false standards of the uptight 50s image and learn to relax, pursue your bliss, and stop being so damn negative about ones own desires.

Point being, we have gotten into the habit of picking an Image, failing to achieve it, and then bitching endlessly about how unfair the Image is.

Television.  "Buy our product and you too can be as cool, calm, sexy, together, and successful as these ficitonal characters."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Television.  They put Beaver Cleaver&#8217;s mom on the air and held it up as a standard to which we were all supposed to live up.  Likewise Ozzie and Harriet.  When it clearly didn&#8217;t work, they held up the mirror to show us the &#8220;failures&#8221; in living color and made us feel like a nation of self-indulgent neurotics.  Now we have &#8220;reality tv&#8221; which suggests that everyone is out for their own sake and will stab our best friend in the back for the prize at the end of the show.</p>
<p>Feminists railed against Playboy in the 70s and 80s for holding up a female standard no one could live up to.  But frankly, if one read the articles (instead of &#8220;just&#8221; looking at the pictures) Playboy strongly urged people to drop the false standards of the uptight 50s image and learn to relax, pursue your bliss, and stop being so damn negative about ones own desires.</p>
<p>Point being, we have gotten into the habit of picking an Image, failing to achieve it, and then bitching endlessly about how unfair the Image is.</p>
<p>Television.  &#8220;Buy our product and you too can be as cool, calm, sexy, together, and successful as these ficitonal characters.&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: grumpypilgrim</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2006/08/22/those-good-old-days-never-existed-2/comment-page-1/#comment-2310</link>
		<dc:creator>grumpypilgrim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Aug 2006 14:08:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=432#comment-2310</guid>
		<description>Indeed, the phrase "family values" is one of those deliberately undefined phrases that social conservatives invented to mean whatever anyone wants it to mean.  It joins ranks with equally undefined phrases -- such as "war on terrorism," "victory in Iraq," "making America safer," "protecting marriage," "compassionate conservative," "pro-life," etc. -- with which they whitewash over their bigoted and destructive beliefs.  Why some people (most of whom seem to be Republicans) have such a love affair with these euphemistic slogans is obvious:  who wants to admit they're a bigot?  Much easier on the psyche to say they are "pro-family" than to say they are misogynistic or racist.  Much better to say they are "declaring war on terrorism" than to say they are lying to America to grab political power and raid the public treasury.

As Erika says, the "good old days" is another example.  This phrase appeals to people who long for the days when Americans were financially prosperous, wildly optimistic about the future...and deeply segregated.  When I say "segregated," I don't just mean separation of the races.  America in the 1950s had very clear lines between the sexes, between ethnic groups, between financial strata, etc.  American society was highly compartmentalized and everyone "knew his place" in the hierarchy.  In particular, everyone knew that wealthy white men (and their well-kept wives) were at the top of the hierarchy, which is perhaps why so many wealthy white men (and their well-kept wives) are leading the charge to return to those days.  Are you listening, Rush Limbaugh, Pat Robertson, George Bush...?

Unfortunately, human memory being what it is (i.e., strongly biased in favor of remembering the good and forgetting the unpleasant), today's view of the '50s is a gross distortion of what it actually was.  For example, while America had far fewer problems with drug abuse than today, it still had significant problems with alcohol abuse, smoking, unprotected sex, unwanted pregnancies, unhappy marriages, etc.  Also -- and here's where the conservative right conveniently looks the other way -- America had a much smaller gap between its rich and its poor.  Unlike today, anyone with a high school education could get a good-paying middle-class job, buy a nice house in the suburbs, and raise a family with the wife at home.  However, those days are obviously gone and they are never coming back, which makes the dreamy desire for the "good old days" just another romantic fantasy -- right up there with the "good old days" when women wore ankle-length outfits to the beach and had no right to vote, or the "good old days" when plantation owners could buy and sell slaves.  Every generation has had its "good old days," and, in every case, what was "good" had very little to do with reality and very much to do with who was doing the talking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indeed, the phrase &#8220;family values&#8221; is one of those deliberately undefined phrases that social conservatives invented to mean whatever anyone wants it to mean.  It joins ranks with equally undefined phrases &#8212; such as &#8220;war on terrorism,&#8221; &#8220;victory in Iraq,&#8221; &#8220;making America safer,&#8221; &#8220;protecting marriage,&#8221; &#8220;compassionate conservative,&#8221; &#8220;pro-life,&#8221; etc. &#8212; with which they whitewash over their bigoted and destructive beliefs.  Why some people (most of whom seem to be Republicans) have such a love affair with these euphemistic slogans is obvious:  who wants to admit they&#8217;re a bigot?  Much easier on the psyche to say they are &#8220;pro-family&#8221; than to say they are misogynistic or racist.  Much better to say they are &#8220;declaring war on terrorism&#8221; than to say they are lying to America to grab political power and raid the public treasury.</p>
<p>As Erika says, the &#8220;good old days&#8221; is another example.  This phrase appeals to people who long for the days when Americans were financially prosperous, wildly optimistic about the future&#8230;and deeply segregated.  When I say &#8220;segregated,&#8221; I don&#8217;t just mean separation of the races.  America in the 1950s had very clear lines between the sexes, between ethnic groups, between financial strata, etc.  American society was highly compartmentalized and everyone &#8220;knew his place&#8221; in the hierarchy.  In particular, everyone knew that wealthy white men (and their well-kept wives) were at the top of the hierarchy, which is perhaps why so many wealthy white men (and their well-kept wives) are leading the charge to return to those days.  Are you listening, Rush Limbaugh, Pat Robertson, George Bush&#8230;?</p>
<p>Unfortunately, human memory being what it is (i.e., strongly biased in favor of remembering the good and forgetting the unpleasant), today&#8217;s view of the &#8217;50s is a gross distortion of what it actually was.  For example, while America had far fewer problems with drug abuse than today, it still had significant problems with alcohol abuse, smoking, unprotected sex, unwanted pregnancies, unhappy marriages, etc.  Also &#8212; and here&#8217;s where the conservative right conveniently looks the other way &#8212; America had a much smaller gap between its rich and its poor.  Unlike today, anyone with a high school education could get a good-paying middle-class job, buy a nice house in the suburbs, and raise a family with the wife at home.  However, those days are obviously gone and they are never coming back, which makes the dreamy desire for the &#8220;good old days&#8221; just another romantic fantasy &#8212; right up there with the &#8220;good old days&#8221; when women wore ankle-length outfits to the beach and had no right to vote, or the &#8220;good old days&#8221; when plantation owners could buy and sell slaves.  Every generation has had its &#8220;good old days,&#8221; and, in every case, what was &#8220;good&#8221; had very little to do with reality and very much to do with who was doing the talking.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Erich Vieth</title>
		<link>http://dangerousintersection.org/2006/08/22/those-good-old-days-never-existed-2/comment-page-1/#comment-2297</link>
		<dc:creator>Erich Vieth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Aug 2006 05:38:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=432#comment-2297</guid>
		<description>I think of the 50's as a time when society was more orderly, yes, but only on television and only as a result of massive repression and discrimination.  I can't imagine going back to the type of society enabled by rampant bigotry against blacks, women, gays and immigrants, bigotry so widely accepted and yet so rarely discussed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think of the 50&#8217;s as a time when society was more orderly, yes, but only on television and only as a result of massive repression and discrimination.  I can&#8217;t imagine going back to the type of society enabled by rampant bigotry against blacks, women, gays and immigrants, bigotry so widely accepted and yet so rarely discussed.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
