Comments on: Coordinated violence and the frame of “war”

By: Erich Vieth

Erich Vieth — Thu, 10 Jul 2008 23:01:51 +0000

The real question might whether it is worth one’s while to try to reason with such a person. This is a complex issue on many levels. First of all, I suspect that such a person is not always so enraged. Parts of this post likely were part of that trigger, but lives are complex and I can’t begin to take ALL the credit.

On a logical level, he/she asserts many factual claims for which there is no basis, for example:

That Sadam was responsible for 9/11
That I think Sadam was a great fellow.
That I wasn’t horrified about 9/11
That attacking Iraq somehow made the world a safer place.
That massive damage isn’t being done by the U.S. occupation of Iraq.
That I am Jewish.
That I am gay.
That I am gullible.

This enraged dude (or maybe he’s a woman . . . ) doesn’t know who he attacking or why, and he can’t sit still long enough to get himself under control to figure any of this out.

It’s ironic that he exemplifies the power of the “war” frame. Once we “go to war,” we have no responsibility to be intellectually careful. Once we invoke the frame of “war,” there’s no time for doubt or self-criticism. All of this has been beautifully illustrated in the documentary “War Made Easy.”

By: Edgar Montrose

Edgar Montrose — Thu, 10 Jul 2008 17:12:58 +0000

The uninterrupted stream of consciousness is interesting in and of itself, but my real fascination is with the raw, primal rage. Imagine life inside a mind that works like a supercell thunderstorm.

By: Dan Klarmann

Dan Klarmann — Thu, 10 Jul 2008 16:36:56 +0000

Seldom do we receive such a literate, coherent, and well-reasoned response from the learned opposition.

Anyone have a clue what his point might be? Peel away the racism, antisemitism, ignorance, rage, and yo-mama’s, and what is left?

I get “9/11″, “we use oil”, and “my team loses to losers”.

Is “commie” even considered an epithet any more? The USSR is gone, and China is marketing our capitalist pants off.

By: Erick is gay

Erick is gay — Thu, 10 Jul 2008 14:37:15 +0000

Erich YOU sound like your typical democratic jew puss with the whole “this war is BS”, yeah, all my friends who we’re killed in the towers, all that was a myth, the big hole in the city i go past all week is a myth, you are a typical malcontentious idot swallowed up by that whole democrat filled lie take on the overseas conflict amd why it’s happening, here’s another myth for ya, sadam was a great leader and a great guy! you idiot!,Face it kid, when you learn to open your eyes and your ears and think for yourself and withOUT the aid of keenly edited democrat-presented spin on the issues you might see some of the truth, sure oil does have something to do with this war, face it we need the oil, it’s a FACT, cars, heat, cooking, hot water, electric power plants (which withOUT electric you wouldn’t be ONLINE here bitchin about bush and shit that most likely doesn’t affect nor concern YOU up there in your ivory tower) things WE normal people who work at a real job use everyday, even the crap YOU use every day and the things you buy, you commie hippy, all need oil! Lets face some more friggin FACTS ! , Hey, they dont really need the oil for their “homes” and caves which are typically simple one room only so EVERYONE gets a whiff of the lamb and curry you ate all month farts comin out yer arse little mud huts which ARE without lights and or toilets, hence why they ALL smell like shit over there and they only want our money to buy weapons to kill us americans and israeli jews anyway, that way they can buy their one way tickets to get on over here as quick as they can just to open up some stinky, low-quality-item filled unkempt smelly bodegas, dollar stores and taxi stands, and then they all claim ” In my country, I was a Doctor”! to which I usually reply,”Hey pal, ANYONE from your shithole country with bus fare and a half decent razor blade and a real cheap ass bottle of low quality perfume thinks he’s a “dr.”, it doesn’t mean you could/would qualify to be one over here, so get back on you camel, get home now so you can fondle your goat and go blo visnu or what ever stupid elephant headed money turd you dirtbags sweat over like fat jewish women at a $3.99 buffett, shut up and take me to the Garden so i can watch the overhyped, overpaid untalented-uncoachable Knicks and their zillion dollar crybabies on the payroll LOSE by 35 to the last place bulls, have some beers, smoke my brains out, than maybe on the way home I’ll veer off and pick up a cheap toothless hooker for a quickie who, by the way, says shes your mom !!!

By: grumpypilgrim

grumpypilgrim — Tue, 28 Aug 2007 17:41:06 +0000

Interested readers might like to read this related post:
http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=1215/.

By: Erich Vieth

Erich Vieth — Tue, 28 Aug 2007 16:13:56 +0000

Bush’s entire presidency has been propped up by the War Myth. By aggressively presenting himself as a war leader, by wrapping himself in the sacred robes of patriotism, the military and national honor, Bush has taken refuge in the holy of holies, the ultimate sanctuary in American life. He has made criticism of his policies tantamount to criticism of the one institution in American life that is untouchable: the military. He uses the almost 4,000 new crosses in military cemeteries as a talisman against his opponents — notwithstanding the fact that he is wholly responsible for those crosses.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/kamiya/2007/08/28/war_myth/

By: Erich Vieth

Erich Vieth — Sun, 26 Aug 2007 18:51:49 +0000

Rocky: I agree that our interest in Middle East “democracy” is really about oil. It’s summed up by the common thought of many conservatives that, somehow, “our oil ended up under their sand.” The frame of war justifies reckless and despicable violence in pursuit of “our” oil.’

By: Rocky Johnson

Rocky Johnson — Sun, 26 Aug 2007 18:45:26 +0000

Erich,
I don’t claim to have any understanding of Iraq and its surrounding countries. The frames in which you speak of do strike a chord with my own thoughts; concerning wars, and beaches, even religions, day to day life, each part that we do: Going to work, family life at home, going to social events. Each has its own frame as I sit here thinking about it I see where there could be at least fifty or so frames that we do live by in our lifetime, so I thank you for opening up my eyes to the concept. At 42 years old there usually aren’t too many new horizons to explore LOL.

My two cents though, for whatever it is worth, makes me believe that the situation in Iraq is all about one three letter word. “OIL”. Lets face it we need it, we will fight for it, and it appears like we as Americans, have allowed our children to die for it.
I never saw America go after the Northern Sudanese with all of the “War Crimes” and “Inhumanities” that they have done to their Southern Sudanese “Infidel” Christian brothers; But Sudan is not sitting on the worlds second largest oil reserve either. I have no doubts that Saddam Hussein’s reign was one of a fist, and tyrannical and I cannot defend all that he had done to his own people. But I do truly feel this though.
That the war for that three letter word “OIL” is far from over, not over for the United States and definitely not over for the other powerful countries that are in this world
God Bless
Rocky Johnson

By: hogiemo

hogiemo — Mon, 10 Jul 2006 17:18:35 +0000

Erich, you’re right. The “war” ended when “W” declared a cessation of hostilities onboard the aircraft carrier with a “Mission Accomplished” banner overhead.

International law recognizes ( as much as international law can be said to apply to a war that was fought where the occupier had not been first attacked) our current status in Iraq as one of “belligerent occupation”. We don’t have any war except in our minds and the frames which we have allowed to be foisted upon us by a radical neoconservative cabal which runs the Bush administration’s foreign policy and was hell-bent upon regime change in Iraq before 9/11, and slavering at their jowels thereafter.

What obligations do we have under international law? Chief among them is the restoration of civil society. Civil society is most prominently recognized by the international community as an efficient operation of society under secure conditions. We have not met our obligations under international law in Iraq to restore civil society. The myth which we have created in Iraq is that millions holding up purple thumbs is enough for democracy to have been established. Please recall the frequent elections which were held in the former Soviet Union which constitution had more freedoms than the US’. But, no one may safely walk the streets at night. No one has access to a secure supply of safe drinking water. No one has safe access to a safe supply of food, electricity, an education or healthcare. There is no safety in the religious shrines. Gee, and the Iraqis want us out of there?

Recent reports of US atrocities coupled with reports that domestic police are terrorizing the Iraqi people have created an environmet where guns are selling for two or thee times what they did months ago, and there’s no slacking of demand. US policy is tied to some future date where it is “safe” to withdraw and that date is tied to the creation of a domestic security apparatus which may civilly and militarily maintain civil society. Today’s St. Louis Post-Dispatch reorts such is not possible in any conceivable future, according to Iraqi authorities. Our situation in Iraq parallels that of the Israelis in Palestine, with the same endless struggle facing us in the future. Osama couldn’t have it better.

The “war” frame which the Bushies have foisted upon us is unraveling. The public does not support the war in Iraq. The challenge we face is what’s next?