Comments on: What does the New Testament actually say about morality?

By: Erich Vieth

Erich Vieth — Tue, 11 Mar 2008 19:56:34 +0000

Paul: I think I get your drift, but in my opinion it’s always immoral to torture people. It doesn’t matter whether you warned them that you were going to do it. It doesn’t matter if the torturer is a human or a God. It doesn’t matter whether the victims are living or “dead.”

By: Paul

Paul — Tue, 11 Mar 2008 18:27:10 +0000

Is it loving to let people know what the consequences of choices are?
Is it loving to give people time to make there choice?

Just a couple of things I’m thinking about.

By: Erich Vieth

Erich Vieth — Sun, 23 Sep 2007 04:35:48 +0000

In Freethoughtpedia, I stumbled upon an article entitled “Christianity is misogynistic”:

Misogyny is fundamental to the basic writings of Christianity. In passage after passage, women are encouraged—no, commanded—to accept an inferior role, and to be ashamed of themselves for the simple fact that they are women. Misogynistic biblical passages are so common that it’s difficult to know which to cite. From the New Testament we find “Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church. . . .” (Ephesians 5:22–23) and “These [redeemed] are they which were not defiled with women; . . .” (Revelation 14:4); and from the Old Testament we find “How then can man be justified with God? Or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?” (Job 25:4) Other relevant New Testament passages include Colossians 3:18; 1 Peter 3:7; 1 Corinthians 11:3, 11:9, and 14:34; and 1 Timothy 2:11–12 and 5:5–6. Other Old Testament passages include Numbers 5:20–22 and Leviticus 12:2–5 and 15:17–33.

http://freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/20_Reasons_to_abandon_Christianity

By: David

David — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 16:47:03 +0000

I have been a Christian since I was nine years old when I had a quiet but meaningful “born again” experience. That conversion experience took away my fear of “going to hell”. Even so over the years I have had my share of doubts about the existence of God, the inerrancy of the Bible, the problem with evil and most germaine to this discussion, the issue of God’s wrath. There is much for me to learn but I have a heart-settleness regarding the following:
1) God is God. We are not. He alone is uncreated and needs no other to exist. He is absolute creator and sustainer of all there is.
2) God created us in his image. His image includes: spirit -
that we are spiritual beings who from our creation will live for ever and ever (This is a key point! Read it again.), personality - that we are each one an individual person who can think, experience emotions and make decisions, many of which really count.
3) The greatest value of our being created in God’s image is that we can enter into meaningful relationships, similar to the relationship that is enjoyed among the triune personalities of the Trinity: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

. . .
27) I have come to see this life as a kind of audition, an American Idol. But the good news is that as the Trinity of Judges consider each of us, they recognize that none of us have what it takes to make it into the big show. So Jesus takes the stage and completes the audition for us. We simply recognize our need and ask Him to bring us in with Him.
28) The very idea of that will rankle some who think they can do quiet well without His help. That attitude is pride and reveals a very nearsighted view of God. Remember, he is the one who spoke the univers into existence and calls the stars by their names (not numbers.) It also reveals how short sighted they are. We don’t remember that God has put enternity in our hearts. We have a lot of living to do after our time on earth. It is like many who go on American Idol but the first words out of their mouths reveal to the qualified judges, and anyone else who is honest, just how far away they are from making it. Only God is qualified to judge us. His standard is Jesus. The rest of us are just want to be’s. Fortunately we can take his hand and make it through.

[Admin's note: this comment was edited for length and mere tangential relevance to this particular post]

By: george

george — Mon, 23 Apr 2007 02:31:01 +0000

Its more spiritual than any of you interesting people seem to understand. understand the fundamentals then everything falls into place if you wish to see.old testament seemingly horrible times were necessary for god to dwell with the isrealites(god is holy and cannot see sin,the devil finds ways to disrupt) through the israelites all peoples are blessed and the devil doesnt like israelis becos of that fact. sadam and iraq in general is anti israeli!..jesus was a jew. thru the shedding of his blood we are all made acceptible unto god NOW. jesus’ battle is with the devil-hell is where the d man resides tho he was cast down to earth. jesus dint come to threaten but to save.i pray u all realise. LOVE

By: Erich Vieth

Erich Vieth — Mon, 16 Apr 2007 13:37:31 +0000

Hell is the elephant in the room in the “kind and gentle” part of the Christian Bible, the New Testament. Those who want to believe in Jesus as their buddy refuse to acknowledge that their “buddy” invented hell and is threatening them with it. When you were a kid, did anyone threaten you with violence if you refused to be their friend? Those who still insist that Jesus is their “friend” work hard to portray those hot fires and gnashing of teeth as something that sounds worse than it is . . .

The bottom line, though, is that hell the framework of New Testament morality. Here’s more on hell from Ebonmuse: http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/04/bright-machines.html

By: Vicki

Vicki — Sat, 17 Mar 2007 23:06:08 +0000

The New Testament contains a lot of material that reflects the birth pangs of the Church as an institution - demonstrating how religion can be the enemy of religious experience. Nearly 200 New Testament scholars who participated in the Jesus Seminar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Seminar) attempted to filter out this later material using close textual analysis of all relevant manuscripts, and insights from anthropology and archaeology to reconstruct the historical Jesus. They concluded that the historical Jesus was a wandering wisdom sage who told familiar-sounding stories in revolutionary new ways. His style was highly ironic, filled with pithy aphorisms and impossible-sounding exhortations to “love your enemies” and to treat despised outgroups like the Samaritans as neighbors.
The most startling claim of the Jesus Seminar was that “Jesus preached a sapiential eschatology (repairing the world) rather than an apocalyptic eschatology” (end of the world). ”
This is certainly the Jesus who inspired the founding of the historic peace churches, starting with the Mennonites in 1540 and this is the Jesus who inspired the thousands who marched on the White House to demand an end to our unjust war in Iraq last night. The religious left is an integral part of the peace movement, movements for social justice, debt relief, etc. I admire the Christians I know who have been arrested, tear-gassed, and shot with rubber bullets while fighting non-violently for the end of war and for justice for the oppressed. On the other hand it seems like many of the people I know with a “strictly materialist world view” have been pretty satisfied with the status quo (why not, they are part of the ruling class) until the last few years or so.
Just putting a different point of view out - so often it is only the religious right that gets air time.

By: Erich Vieth

Erich Vieth — Sat, 17 Mar 2007 20:13:57 +0000

Del: You are welcome to join us with your comments, regardless of the positions you take on the posts.

You’ll want to review our comment policies (posted at the top right corner of the home page of this site). Almost all comments are published. The most common cause for rejection is rambling off-topic. A few other reject comments constituted personal attacks on our authors or on other commenters.

If you have something to say, then, please join us. Let us know what you are thinking . . .

By: Del

Del — Sat, 17 Mar 2007 18:36:54 +0000

Hi
I am glad to find a site where one can express an honest opinion or doubts about the Bible without fear of retribution. I have many unresolved beliefs concerning the Christian faith and am looking for a forum where I can share my thoughts. (I have beeen a believer for many years but the present political debacle has caused me to doubt much of what I used to believe)

Please let me know if this qualifies me to be a part of your forum without a formal web site.

Del

By: grumpypilgrim

grumpypilgrim — Thu, 15 Feb 2007 04:39:27 +0000

Christianity has a curious history. It never would have achieved widespread popularity today if ancient rulers had seen it as a threat to their power and eradicated it. Instead, many saw it as a useful tool to help control the peasants. Christianity promises eternal rewards in heaven in exchange for bearing a lifetime of misery and sacrifice. Indeed, in the words of God himself: “Slaves, obey your earthly masters” (see Eph. 6:5 and Col. 3:22). What better “moral philosophy” could a ruler hope to instill in his or her subjects? Of course, some rulers also enjoyed keeping a portion of the tribute (tithes) that believers paid to the church — something that also didn’t hurt the chances for Christianity’s success.